Dawntrail is a good Story but not a Great Story. (SPOILERS)

[Kasasagi]

Im very curious. In which way did Wuk Lamat grow? I get she had a lot of screen time. But I didnt really see much in the way of growth.

The more you go thru the msq you see how she lerns on evrey part of her journey. She goes from the young "shelterd" Girl who only knew about the diffrent cultures of Tural thru tales and what she expirienced in Tuliyollal to a leader who understands her peopel. She lerns evry step of the way.

[Xellith]

The more you go thru the msq you see how she lerns on evrey part of her journey. She goes from the young "shelterd" Girl who only knew about the diffrent cultures of Tural thru tales and what she expirienced in Tuliyollal to a leader who understands her peopel. She lerns evry step of the way.

How did it change her though? She started out very naive, thinking she knew everything about her people, and wanting peace, love, and happiness for them. She finished being naive, knowing a few facts of her people, and wanting peace, love, and happiness for them. Apart from "learning of other peoples cultures", what exactly did she learn? How did these experiences shape who she became? Because from where I'm standing shes very much the same person she was before her journey. Her experiences didnt really shape her. You can almost see Koana and Wuk Lamat as two sides of the same coin. Where Koana learned to understand and accept the different cultures of Tural, Wuk Lamat didnt really learn to accept that some things need to change. She just filled in the culture gaps in her head that she already thought she had filled.

It would have been a strong moment of growth for her to throw in the towel to let Koana win the rite. Saying "I understand that you are a changed man. I believe you understand the type of leader that Tural needs. We both know that I dont have what it takes to lead a nation. My dream of being dawnservant, with my aspirations for the Turali people of peace, love and happiness are so childish. They arent a strong foundation for national policies". But no. The smart one throws in the towel.. which I dont think he would do since Wuk is a bit of an airhead. Not what Tural needs at all after his own personal growth. Tural is lucky enough that Wuk Lamat recognises this, so she offers him the job of Head of Resolve.

It just feels so.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXWmgX-V02k

[Kasasagi]

Tural is lucky enough that Wuk Lamat recognises this, so she offers him the job of Head of Resolve.

It just feels so.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXWmgX-V02k

And here it is. You say it yourself. But she didn'T offer him the position of Head of Resolve out of nowhere. She had it planned ahead of time.

[Havenchild]

How did it change her though? She started out very naive, thinking she knew everything about her people, and wanting peace, love, and happiness for them. She finished being naive, knowing a few facts of her people, and wanting peace, love, and happiness for them. Apart from "learning of other peoples cultures", what exactly did she learn? How did these experiences shape who she became? Because from where I'm standing shes very much the same person she was before her journey. Her experiences didnt really shape her. You can almost see Koana and Wuk Lamat as two sides of the same coin. Where Koana learned to understand and accept the different cultures of Tural, Wuk Lamat didnt really learn to accept that some things need to change. She just filled in the culture gaps in her head that she already thought she had filled.

It would have been a strong moment of growth for her to throw in the towel to let Koana win the rite. Saying "I understand that you are a changed man. I believe you understand the type of leader that Tural needs. We both know that I dont have what it takes to lead a nation. My dream of being dawnservant, with my aspirations for the Turali people of peace, love and happiness are so childish. They arent a strong foundation for national policies". But no. The smart one throws in the towel.. which I dont think he would do since Wuk is a bit of an airhead. Not what Tural needs at all after his own personal growth. Tural is lucky enough that Wuk Lamat recognises this, so she offers him the job of Head of Resolve.

I would argue you've missed the entire point of the Rite of Succession and Galool Ja Ja's entire test of each of the candidates, and not because of a lack of explanation, but because of your own lack of understanding.

It is inferred what specifically Wuk Lamat and Koana need to learn to become Dawnservant throughout the entirety of the MSQ.

Wuk Lamat -

- Her test is two-fold in understanding the culture of the people beyond what she has come to understand in the capital as referenced by her father. To understand the roots and history / culture of her people, each of the races/ societies. The feats are meant to guide her through this by being designed around "understanding" the why each are the way they are and how it plays into the mold of Tural as a whole. Secondly, it is to test her mantle, specifically to overcome things that she is squeemish / scared of / afraid to approach. A leader must stand tall and approach the issues head on even when you don't like it. She absolutely becomes much more fearless by the turn of the story half of pretty much everything while equally still carrying the lesson of understanding along the way in her approach to Sphene. So her experiences even into the attack on Tural, absolutely do shape her.

Koana -

- Is meant to learn that the culture of the Turali tribes is very important and must be respected while also that entirely depending on outside technological advances for solutions isn't immediately the solution that his people even want. He learns this lesson, by time of the defense of Tural, by instead of depending on outside tech, he calls and coordinates each regions defenses of local militias in the defense effort. Galool Ja's lesson also being that Turalians are already strong, united.


Having said that, the story rounds out both of them by making them EXACTLY dual leaders, which benefits literally everyone. Your version of "how it should be " would not only invalidate multiple levels of MSQ story, but I suspect infuriate even more people because now you'd have one or two leaders, neither of which who want to be Dawnservant having to defend against Zoraal Ja and Sphene in the second half. Not to mention, Koana isn't really written to being a super active combat person either compared to all the other candidates. You think Koana was beating Zoraal Ja? The cowboy kid in Shaloani got better gun feats on screen.

Then I envy you. If seeing people with different opinion enough to fascinate you, then you must be living your life in constant fascination.

You got it twisted. It's not the fact that people have a different opinion or not. That's fine, it's all subjective.

It's that the forums as a whole are trying to do a 180 after hating SB / Lyse for literal years and now that the DT hate train is the popular convo, with the exact complaints, people are trying to suddenly make it seem like SB was this fantastic story for MSQ, and Lyse is a fantastic well built character.

That is not only disingenuous, it's alright BS. I will continue to call that out nonstop. If you want to hate DT that's fine, but we not about to try and position SB MSQ / Lyse as great, when both were rough at best and the only things most people remember about the SB MSQ or Lyse as a character, was that both got better during the post patch cycle and the Yotsuyu/ Tsuyu storyline.

[Raven2014]

You got it twisted. It's not the fact that people have a different opinion or not. That's fine, it's all subjective.

It's that the forums as a whole are trying to do a 180 after hating SB / Lyse for literal years and now that the DT hate train is the popular convo, with the exact complaints, people are trying to suddenly make it seem like SB was this fantastic story for MSQ, and Lyse is a fantastic well built character.

That is not only disingenuous, it's alright BS. I will continue to call that out nonstop. If you want to hate DT that's fine, but we not about to try and position SB MSQ / Lyse as great, when both were rough at best and the only things most people remember about the SB MSQ or Lyse as a character, was that both got better during the post patch cycle and the Yotsuyu/ Tsuyu storyline.

You do know that most people can re-evaluate our opinion as we gain more information right? It's not like we're born omnipotence, knowing everything from A to Z, and what the true universal best and worst are.

For example:

- let imagine a person from a well-off family and has been eating good all their life. Home-made food, ironchef restaurant and all that.

- one day, their friend gave them a cheap frozen $2 burger reheat in the microwave. They took one bite and thought "this is actually food? How can anyone eat this?!?" I personally know a few people like that irl.

- Then on a faithful vacation, they get stuck in a warzone with no way out. They spent a week trying to survive on rain water, moldy bread and emergency ration. Then they get rescued, the rescuer handed them a frozen burger fresh off the microwave. They devour it while thinking "this is the BEST thing I've ever eaten!!".

Lyse is like the frozen burger and WL is that moldy bread. When we had Lyse, we thought she was the worst, our evaluation was based on the assumption no one can ever be worse. Then Wuk Lamat happens, so Lyse is now elevated as no longer be the worst. What you call 180 disingenuous BS, is actually simply people re-evaluating their opinion upon gaining a new perspective. You know ... just a human thing to do? Usually after losing something or seeing something worse, it gives us new appreciation of what we had before.

And let's just hope moldy bread is the lowest FF14 gonna go. I swear if FF14 somehow introduce a character that even worse than WL ... then what? It'll be like stuck out in the desert and have to eat live scorpion and chewing on cactus?