Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[SteakDriven]

OMG just saw Zepla's playthrough during Living Memory. Check it out!. After the devastating, beautiful scene when Erenville says goodbye to his mother and we see her return to the the Lifestream, Wuk Lamat interrupts the moment and practically says "OK we are done here". Zepla inmediately ravages her by saying BITCH this is NOT about you, shut up, for once, get out of my game!. #eraseWukLamat. https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx-P2...6plIoUNYR91Bei. Zepla keep going! You are amazing!

What was her reaction to the godawful acting during Namikka and Wuk Lamat's goodbye?

[gumas]

Imagine you work hard in your company for years, you finally get a week off holiday, you plan everything, you are excited.

Only for your most annoying friend to come together with you uninvited, but it didnt just stop there, he forced you to go where he want to, he the one do the talking for you, he came to your room every night, he is the one who play the attraction not you, he the one who meet new people not you, he dont has personal space at all, and everytime he did something he give this "i did good right? Iam a good friend right?" look to you and you being a natural decent person cant help but say yes to him

This is how i felt throughtout msq, i though this is suppose to be my holiday? Why it become her holiday instead yoshi? Wtf?

[Raven2014]

Nono, you missunderstand me. I'm not saying he as no tropes. I'm saying he deosn't feel like it.

The point is he IS one, and he certainly felt like one to me. Because these characters only have limited amount of time and because they must 'cause some soft impact that the players can feel or related to, they're often given very strong first impression. What you are describing isn't the trope, just different examples of how the trope is used. The existence of these characters, they are the trope themselves. Gulool Ja Ja pretty much followed this formula to a T.

Sorry but this here I don't understand.
You are using psychological problems here. Gulool JaJa was absolutely not an abusing parent or something.

That's not what I'm saying. Say if you have a parents that spoiled their kids rotten, it's very likely the kids will see the parents as the world to them ... but if that's all to it ... that's not good parenting isn't? The point is, good parenting isn't just about making sure the kids love and respect you, but also making sure they grow up well adjusted and well prepared for the challenge that will await them. And I'm sorry, there is no way Gulool Ja Ja would earn a passing mark for the second part.

- If he had planned for the children to success him, shouldn't he started prepare them for that like ... years ago?

- The rite of succession should be like the graduation exam for the children ability to rule, not their FIRST lesson to kingship.

- Wuk and Koana were completely oblivious to most of the land culture and history, while Zoraal Ja suffered a depression so deep it turned into a delusion. (I don't believe Zoraal Ja ever care about his people, his belief in war is basically a way for him to cope with his depression).


And the worst part ... just like the Maamo Ja's story, Gulool Ja ja know about this. The scene after our duel where he admit that none of his children are ready, then declare "well if they're not ready after this I'll just kick their arse and continue to rule muahahaha" triggered me. Now I'm pretty sure the writers thought this scene make him look cool and badarse - which is what they're trying to do with character of this trope. But I was like ... you know they are your children right? If none of them are ready to rule ... whose fault you think that is? So why do you act like it's not your problem!?!?b I'm sorry, the callousness of this scene ensure there is no way anyone can convince me Gulool Ja ja is a good parents.

You know we actually have a pretty close comparison to Gulool Ja Ja. I presented to you ... G'raha. You actually can draw a lot parallel between Gulool Ja Ja's rule and G'raha in the first:

- They are both savior and united their people.

- They both usher the population into a period of stability and prosperity.

- We enter their story at the tail end of their rule.

- G'raha also had an adoptive (grand)daughter, Lyna.

We also didn't see much of direct rulership from G'raha but unlike Gulool, we actually got enough exposition to get a good idea about it. G'raha made sure to set up the structure and organizations of the Crystarium in a way that they are ready for his eventual departure. Comparing that to Gulool's last minute search for a successor and ... well?

I don't think I need to describe how beautifully and masterfully crafted the dynamic between Lyna and G'raha? The fact that Gulool Ja Ja have THREE children yet the story manage to give us almost zero exposition on this kind of dynamic is ... kinda amazing really.

It really just show the gap between the writing of DT and previous expansion. And as a I had expressed before (in another thread), I'm someone who always tie the characters to their writing. So bad writing = bad characters, as simple as that.

[EusisLandale]

OMG just saw Zepla's playthrough during Living Memory. Check it out!. After the devastating, beautiful scene when Erenville says goodbye to his mother and we see her return to the the Lifestream, Wuk Lamat interrupts the moment and practically says "OK we are done here". Zepla inmediately ravages her by saying BITCH this is NOT about you, shut up, for once, get out of my game!. #eraseWukLamat. https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx-P2...6plIoUNYR91Bei. Zepla keep going! You are amazing!

Going further ahead in that to the end of the trial and she has a little bit of a meltdown over that garbage too.

[Trevski]

I thought I'd add in my own contribution to this thread, since Highlander Clone seems to be collecting them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjTSlnGDMl4

For those who may not want to go all the way through, although I'm not enamored with Wuk Lamat, I don't think the basic idea of her character is wrong...it's just that there's a combination of too much passive gameplay, mediocre writing and an overabundance of Wuk Lamat at the expense of other characters.

[All_Nonsense]

OMG just saw Zepla's playthrough during Living Memory. Check it out!. After the devastating, beautiful scene when Erenville says goodbye to his mother and we see her return to the the Lifestream, Wuk Lamat interrupts the moment and practically says "OK we are done here". Zepla inmediately ravages her by saying BITCH this is NOT about you, shut up, for once, get out of my game!. #eraseWukLamat. https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx-P2...6plIoUNYR91Bei. Zepla keep going! You are amazing!

Something to note: No one got to have their special moment in this expac. No one except Wuk Lamat of course. When it comes to Koanna's growth, Wuk Lamat has to be crammed in there to say her piece. When Erenville's MOTHER DIED and he had JUST WATCHED HIS MOTHER DIE, Wuk Lamat starts yapping and then we just move on? Just like that? There was a whole scene with Urianger meeting Moenbryda's parents where they were given some space to handle their grief. Even Krile, who has insane lore developments doesn't get to have her special moment. The earring that started this whole journey and led us here - the one from Krile's dad Galuf? The one that turned out to be the key to the golden city after Krile's real name was revealed? Krile didn't get to use it. She had to share her special moment with some kid that didn't have a place in the story at all. She had to give it to some random minor side-character and then that character got to open the door for her. And that was it. That was Krile's moment.

[Trevski]

Something to note: No one got to have their special moment in this expac. No one except Wuk Lamat of course. When it comes to Koanna's growth, Wuk Lamat has to be crammed in there to say her piece. When Erenville's MOTHER DIED and he had JUST WATCHED HIS MOTHER DIE, Wuk Lamat starts yapping and then we just move on? Just like that? There was a whole scene with Urianger meeting Moenbryda's parents where they were given some space to handle their grief. Even Krile, who has insane lore developments doesn't get to have her special moment. The earring that started this whole journey and led us here - the one from Krile's dad Galuf? The one that turned out to be the key to the golden city after Krile's real name was revealed? Krile didn't get to use it. She had to share her special moment with some kid that didn't have a place in the story at all. She had to give it to some random minor side-character and then that character got to open the door for her. And that was it. That was Krile's moment.

It's even more frustrating when you consider that her only meaningful contribution was introducing Pictomancer...in a duty where Wuk Lamat takes up 90% of the screen time. And that happens before Dawntrail proper.

It'd have been fun if we did a Thancred-like instance like what we did in Shadowbringers or Endwalker. Or if Krile did anything beyond just stand and go 'I agree with Wuk Lamat.'

I don't even really care about Krile. Like, she's not my favorite character or anything, but it's disappointing that no characters really get an opportunity to shine in this expansion. Except one.

[gumas]

Yoshi better say something for next livestream, at least confirming that they put too much wuk lamat in it and promose to make her less appear on next story or something

[Drimn]

You bring up a good point. They were trying to be "respectful" of cultures, but then they sanitize something that was a part of early American culture? Yes, duels didn't historically happen all the time like in the movies, but they did happen. Hell one of our founding fathers was killed in a duel with the vice president. And one of our presidents, Andrew Jackson was a notorious duelist.

If they didn't want to have the duel end in death, there are ways around it. Historically, many duels were about honor. Both participants would just shoot into the ground because they had no intention to harm each other. Also before the invention of rifling, a lot of duels just ended with both participants missing each other, shrugging their shoulders because honor was satisfied, and goin home.

Whatever "cultural sensitivities" CBU3 was adhering to seems to be directed towards a group of people who wouldn't care that they got American culture wrong.

What's more likely is the consultants they hired to help them with "cultural sensitivities" view that aspect of American culture and history as a problem that needs to be fixed, and their writing is their way of trying to "clean it up." Honestly, if they were going to go Old West and think guns are icky, they could have at least done a poker match or something to that effect rather than the lame airsoft LARPing session they wrote instead. Or better yet, not done a really weak rendition of an Old West zone. I'd say they could go for a more pre-Columbian route, but with how disrespectful they were in Tural, they'd probably handle a pre-Columbian US about as well as Peter Pan or 1940s Looney Tunes did.

Did they say the bullets are rubber in Japanese as well, or is it just an English localization?

When Erenville's MOTHER DIED and he had JUST WATCHED HIS MOTHER DIE, Wuk Lamat starts yapping and then we just move on? Just like that?

Not just that, but Wuk Lamat, God-Queen of Empathy and Friendship, who had just lost her father very shortly before, takes her supposed best friend watching his mother die with a "damn that sucks moving on." All of the Scions are convinced she's a wonderful person, by the way, even the one that shares the Echo and occasionally gets a peek behind the fourth wall along with you. Nothing about her character makes sense unless she was written by someone that thinks self-serving posturing and patronizing are the keys to being a good and decent person rather than actually going out of your way for others that are in need and knowing how to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

[Crocops]

It is not her fault, it is just the whole universe (expansion) revolves around her.

She said I want peace and people came to her to exchange high value goods for low value ones so she can pass the trial; she wanted to relive her childhood festival experience and all of a sudden it fixed the crops issue; she wanted to befriend some would-be slavers who tried to enslave her and it turned out fine; she wanted to bring lizard people peace and her brother just abruptly forfeited his right of claimant, and provided a solution to the crops issue no one would care to solve for hundreds of years and thus suspended the lizard people's desire to expand...Of course she just preaches she loves peace again and again as it is all she needed to become the dawnservant.

The power of friendship is all she needs to solve all the obstacles: Bakool Ja Ja used to single handedly stopped her attack which she admitted that she “gave it all", but after a few days she beats the crap of Bakool Ja Ja and his dozens of lackeys while WOL stands watching. A few days in heritage foundry and her nation just developed enough tech to repeal floating carriers and laser shooting robots. Her power grew so much with "friendship" that she butted in the final battle, holding off the giant death robot's attack all on her own...Of cause she preaches power of friendship for the thousandth time as it just works.

To be fair, her character arc is so genuine because why on the green earth she wants to grow or develop anything when she succeed in becoming dawnservant and saving the world with her bravado and everyone loves the smell of her fart.