How many more times must our Living Dead get griefed?

[Ramiee]

Wait I'm confused I thought this was about living dead being griefed. Why is tank, healer and encounter design being brought up?

[Alice_Rivers]

I thought I'd do a tally.

AnjouMaaka / DRK / In favour
rxantos / PLD / Neutral
ConantSivrha / DRK / Against
Kaixern / DRK / Against
Wildheaven182 / SCH / Neutral
GoatOfWar / SAM / Neutral
LilimoLimomo / BLM / Against
Kabooa / GLM / Neutral
Lannybaby / WAR / Neutral
Dogempire / PLD / Neutral, leaning in favour
Somnolence / WAR / Neutral
Naychan / SCH / Neutral
Alice_Rivers / WHM / Against
PyurBlue / BLM / Against
Ramiee / PCT / Against
Scardrak / DNC / Neutral
Purrnauskis / SCH / Neutral
Derio / DRK / Neutral
R1V3N / SCH / Neutral, leaning in favour
Zeastria / SCH / Neutral
Artina-EU-PH / VPR / Against

Please correct me if I've misrepresented you.

[Naychan]

Actually you come off quite harsh in a few places. In no way did i see any of your posts as a complaint and definitely more of an attack. I’m sure you can be a nice person but insisting that all healers just want to piss you off is really a bad start to the conversation. If the devs actually listened to healers most of us would not be falling asleep though 95% of the content. The real problem is, one most people have no idea what living dead looks like because most healers try to not let darks get that low. The 2nd issue, SQE has made the healers job so brain dead that they have trained people to pretty much sleep though boss encounters and not pay attention. Please remember SQE is dumbed it down so much it’s pretty much painful at this point. Third, it’s just a bad ability. Healers are really only expecting your health to drop at certain points of the fights because they are ALL scripted the same. When you drop health to 0 all of a sudden nobody and I mean NOBODY is thinking “Oh let me check their buffs”. They are thinking OH CHIT the tank is going to die. Instincts kick in and the heal the heck out of you. So please call out what you are doing most people glance at the chat and will see it and let you have your living dead moment.

[AnjouMaaka]

Actually you come off quite harsh in a few places. In no way did i see any of your posts as a complaint and definitely more of an attack. I’m sure you can be a nice person but insisting that all healers just want to piss you off is really a bad start to the conversation. If the devs actually listened to healers most of us would not be falling asleep though 95% of the content. The real problem is, one most people have no idea what living dead looks like because most healers try to not let darks get that low. The 2nd issue, SQE has made the healers job so brain dead that they have trained people to pretty much sleep though boss encounters and not pay attention. Please remember SQE is dumbed it down so much it’s pretty much painful at this point. Third, it’s just a bad ability. Healers are really only expecting your health to drop at certain points of the fights because they are ALL scripted the same. When you drop health to 0 all of a sudden nobody and I mean NOBODY is thinking “Oh let me check their buffs”. They are thinking OH CHIT the tank is going to die. Instincts kick in and the heal the heck out of you. So please call out what you are doing most people glance at the chat and will see it and let you have your living dead moment.

Scholar main, trying to give advice to a tank main, who didn't ask for advice, and is simply here to voice their frustration and has explained how this happens multiple times and definitely explained that it is not new to healing healers doing it. Take your advice back to the healer forums where it belongs. This is a feedback thread, not a quest for help.

[ConantSivrha]

ConantSivrha / DRK / Against

I can’t tell which specific idea this post is counting votes for and against, so I’ll clarify my own position on a few of the things that have been mentioned in the original post and the thread:

I think healers sabotaging Living Dead is almost always an innocent mistake instead of intentional griefing. OP said, in one of their later posts, that they weren’t asking for healers to be punished for healing a dark knight during Living Dead, but this part of the original post…

I'm curious how many more times our Living Dead must be griefed before SE finally steps in and tells these healers enough is enough.

…initially came across to me as “Square Enix/GMs should take action against healers who heal DRKs during Living Dead, because healers who do this are griefers”, which is a position that I was/am opposed to.

I also don’t want Living Dead to lose its uniqueness so it can become foolproof (and/or “normal”). Other invulns may not require the same timing and party cooperation as Living Dead, but other invulns also don’t heal you. Living Dead is powerful, and more importantly, cool as fuck. It’s a fair trade-off, and the last thing we need is more homogenization.

Regarding the idea of Living Dead gaining an effect that blocks outside healing until Walking Dead activates…honestly, there’s a part of me that’s curious how something like this would pan out, and I think it would make DRK more fun to play. But I can also see its potential to cause problems for the party, especially if the blocked healing was simply lost without creating any beneficial effect at all. My focus on the potential downsides for other players was an attempt to correct for personal bias. I’d say I’m neutral towards this idea, and my opinion could change one way or the other depending on the details.

I wouldn’t mind a little extra sustain on DRK. Personally, I would like a regen effect on Oblation.

Lastly, I think a visual indicator for Living Dead (aside from the buff icon by the dark knight’s name), as mentioned by Kaixern, would be an improvement.

With all the flashy abilities, auras an so on that classes have in this game it is still weird to me that living dead doesn't have an ongoing visual indicator that would show that your character is under this certain debuff
(like a veil of darkness surrounding them or even anything else)

[AnjouMaaka]

It's literally just, how long before SE fixes Living Dead to where it cannot be griefed anymore. I fully understand that I have no power over how other players play the game. This is entirely on Square Enix for how they designed the invuln. Back when it was healers just letting you die when the walking dead activated due to not being able to self-cleanse, they still griefed it. Nothing changed except the method by which dark knights get scarred during Living Dead. Does it work fine in raid? Yes. Everywhere else, expect to be in the grave.

The homogenization argument is literally beating a dead horse. It's what made the game accessible to more players, and we are likely to only get more of it, not less, so if you aren't used to it by now, tough luck. Go back to Nioh 2 if you are looking for more challenge than what FFXIV has to offer.

Living Dead may be cool, but it's not healthy for the state of dark knight unless they are going to give dark knight self sustain. I don't care how many of you are against it, my suggestion for raw intuition to be given to all tanks would be hilarious if implemented. I can see the loud minority healers raging over it. It would fix the problem without changing Living Dead, or adding another layer to an already overlayered ability. Let's be honest here, there's not much room left in that tooltip. Let the healers whine. They are still needed in raids. Who else is gonna healer LB3 when the rest of the party wipes to Bonds 3 for the 700th time.

[Kaixern]

I also don’t want Living Dead to lose its uniqueness so it can become foolproof (and/or “normal”). Other invulns may not require the same timing and party cooperation as Living Dead, but other invulns also don’t heal you. Living Dead is powerful, and more importantly, cool as fuck. It’s a fair trade-off, and the last thing we need is more homogenization.

I agree, DRK (and many other classes) has already lost so much.
And worst of all, if we go down this road, it won't take too much time before others posts appear labelled :
"using bolide on gunbreaker is griefing" (or posts targetting other classes)

Too many jobs have already sacrified so much of their identity for the sake of "functionality and balance"
(For a result that was quite disappointing on both ends)

[Gullis]

they could make it so you are immune to healing when LD is used

or play war who has LD healing on a 25 sec cd

[Lorika]

OP do you have a persecution syndrom?
Healer don't grief Living dead, we are just missing it necause there is noclear visual indicator (or sound) for it... And yeah macro doesn't help, i agree, i often miss it since i'm more focused on everything else. (because, when a DRK need to use LD it's because something gone bad)

I can count on the fingers of my two hands the number of time i successfully let a DRK proc a full LD.

But i never griefed a DRK, it's because the ability doesn'thave a clear idicator like superbolide or Holmgang, and it's easilly missed.
in fact i even made an Alt with all the tank job on it to learn the tanks rotation and ability.

So, seriously, healer doesn't grief DRK.

[LilimoLimomo]

For whatever it's worth, I think we're past the point where anything constructive can come from this thread. When someone is absolutely certain that the world is flat and has invested themselves in that narrative, even well-constructed rhetoric and tangible evidence to the contrary is not enough to sway them. The same phenomenon is at play here.

And in fact, evidence shows that such counterarguments are more likely to strengthen a person's resolve in their viewpoints. This is called the Backfire Effect.

So I guess it comes down to what any given poster wants is hoping to get out of this. If you just want to argue back and forth because something about that satisfies you, sure, go for it. But if you're looking to actually change minds, further engagement is far more likely to have the opposite effect.



(For a great video on the whole flat earth vs evidence thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44 )