How do you feel about Viper?

[AvoSturmfaust]

I like VPR and got a solid grasp on the job (still away from perfecting it thought), it's fast and satisfying. But the big problem I have is that it just hit and does nothing else.
You only need to look at the debuff you inflict and manage your gauge, blue gauge and red diamonds.

The ranged attack should be seen more often on other melee job.

But:

• Outside of that, you have nothing else to do, melee DPS usually have higher armor or a cooldown to help them survive big hit, I wish VPR had that because it really feels fragile for almost no reason.
• I find it also difficult to track which positional you'll need to hit. I know it depends on the GCD before but that's little time to predict it. In comparison, RPR has the next positional shining in advance, if you know which sticker you'll want to build as SAM you know which positional is about to happen.
• The Dread GCDs, not fond of the positionals as you need to double weave between them, I usually pop true north because I forgot to place myself and I'm too lazy to hit the side positional.
• Reawakening breaks Dreadwinder GCDs, it's a skill issue but I wish it wouldn't, sometimes my debuff is too short to support two Reawakening and Dread Fangs isn't available to use between the two reawakening and I would like to be able to extend the duration of the debuff with Dreadwinder.

The rotation quickly becomes monotonous, follow the glowing button, don't overcap, maintain your debuff until you can burst/double burst. Other jobs have that little something that rewards you with reduced damage taken that you can put whenever you feel it necessary.

VPR lacks something like this, it is limited to role skill.

Dont get me wrong but most of the things you stated are a YOU problem

Viper Positionals are color coded so you can see them actually 3 gcds ahead

Bloodbath is absolut insane on viper so no need to have a defensive skill, if you die due dmg which you cant avoid its clearly mitigation/healer fault

Dont use Dreadwinder 15s ahead of Serpents Ire, plan your burst better 15s before ire comes up just use Dual Blade Combos back to back if you play with 2.12(2.50) you can easy do that without overcapping your debuff and start your burst automatic around 36s

True North is actually kind of nice for it, you cant cover all of them because TN 45s, Dreadwinder 40s but it is still something to help you get used too it.

[KooriGraywolf]

I was really excited for it but the Noxious Gnash debuff mechanic put me off of it a little bit.

This is because I don't like "keep debuff on enemy" mechanics since it makes you have to dart your eyes to the enemy health every now and then to see if you have to re-apply it (and I'm not a big fan of Focus Target).

With other skills at least I've learned to use a macro with a sound effect reminder such as with bard's Iron Jaws, but with Viper it's impossible to use a macro due to the changing icons.

Not to say that I dislike the changing icons, I think it feels nice and it's a good direction in job design. But for example I felt like Monk felt a lot better once they got rid of the Demolish DoT.

[CKNovel]

What you start the combo with is what dictates whether your positional is rear or side. That's plenty of time to know in advance, given it's a decision you make yourself.

No, it's the second GCD that defines wether you'll end on the side or flank, you can try it yourself.

Dont get me wrong but most of the things you stated are a YOU problem
True North is actually kind of nice for it, you cant cover all of them because TN 45s, Dreadwinder 40s but it is still something to help you get used too it.

And... What's wrong with a "you problem"? I'm sharing my feedback and how I feel, of course it's a "you problem". That's the point of this topic!

As for the positionals, the amount of misinformation I've seen on this topic just reinforce my idea it needs to be better communicated.
Since the positionals are tied on the buff you'll need to refresh, have the buff on the job bar, above left and right blade so that you can mentally map that smaller number left will mean flank, smaller number right will mean back.

Bloodbath is self healing, not mitigation, that's a huge difference. And all melee jobs have Bloodbath. It might synergize well, Viper is still the job with the least amoung of healing/mitigation.

[Colt47]

Viper feels good in normal content but the second someone has to optimize it gets rough around the edges. The game universally teaches that if you have a limited resource that limited resource is the higher source of damage and should be used first. However, because they opted to use 20 second applications for the buffs it forces people to deviate when starting the rotation if they use something like a tincture of dexterity. It is pretty obvious they intend someone to use Dreadwinder into hunters and swiftskin, not bounce between the non-limited resource and treating it like a goofy version of a reapers death's design.

Also, it isn't intuitive to use the serpents ire right off the bat since typically, that window of opportunity provided from hitting a skill is to account for miscalculating and needing to move to avoid something. In this case, it gets used ahead of when it should like going to an atm and taking money out for a purchase a month ahead of time. This makes for a very quirky rotation at the high level which is why viper is probably going to go through a bit of reworking. I don't think they ever did high level testing on the rotation with consumable items included to the extent they needed to.

[Mikey_R]

As for the positionals, the amount of misinformation I've seen on this topic just reinforce my idea it needs to be better communicated.
Since the positionals are tied on the buff you'll need to refresh, have the buff on the job bar, above left and right blade so that you can mentally map that smaller number left will mean flank, smaller number right will mean back.

The way you have worded this makes it seem the last combo hit is determined by the damage/speed buff, this is false.

How it works qt a basic level is, once you do a finisher, it buffs another one. It always alternates Flank > Rear > Flank etc. The finisher buffs are also known as 'venom' buffs. These do not stack with each other, so you can only have 1 up at a time.

The Viper Sight gauge then just tells you how to get to the buffed finisher, regardless of your damage/speed buffs. You can prove this yourself by manipulating the buff timers. Press Steel gangs > Hunter's Sting > Flanksting Strike > Dreadwinder > Hunter's Coil > Swiftskin's Coil > Steel Fangs. At this point, you will notice Swiftskin's Sting is lit up, despite the damage buff having a lower timer. However, Swiftskin's Sting is the button you need to press to get to the rear positionals and consequentially the finisher that is buffed by Flanksting Strike. The reason it seems it tracks the lower buff between the damage and the speed is that is just how the combat flows. It is worth knowing this though if you happen to use the Dreadwinder follow ups in a different order based on positionals, which can mess with the thought process.

TL:DR, Viper sight gauge only tells you how to get to the next finisher buffed by venom and has nothing to do with the damage/speed buffs.

[CKNovel]

TLR, Viper sight gauge only tells you how to get to the next finisher buffed by venom and has nothing to do with the damage/speed buffs.

Oh yeah, you're actually correct!
For some reason I never paid attention to that buff and focused myself on the second GCD, but you can indeed use the buff granted by the final GCD.

That's very helpful information, thanks!

[Valence]

Having played it, I can safely say that while it's a cool job and whatnot, it's also a hotbar nightmare. Not enough agency and control on our buttons since everything turns into something else and feeds into other buttons, and it' s arbitrarily decided by the devs. The awaken burst is especially egregious with what buttons turn into what and I hate that I have no control over this. Hotbar setups and UI is a very personal and subjective thing, and I feel robbed of it with this job at times.

[Carin-Eri]

Limited experience, as have only just started playing it really. However, one personal dislike I've found is the gap-closer, which isn't very practical as a 'get out of the AOE' solution in my opinion, as have to shift focus from the enemy to an ally. I far prefer the 'no target required' Ninja and Reaper alternatives.

[Morphiana]

VPR is okay but it doesn't feel like and of the abilities really "connect" with the target.

For example, Fell Cleave is an ability that feels like it hits the enemy. VPR clearly has a couple moves that are supposed to be similar but they just don't feel satisfying to use.

[HikariKurosawa]

Couldn't care less. Dual blades are the silliest weapon design ever conceived in media and the job should have just been dual wield.

Positional heavy melee with mall ninja weapon. Count me out.