Dawntrail's MSQ story is a disaster and waste of potential. [full spoilers]

[Raven2014]

So we're just ignoring the remaining, actual living Alexandrians?

No, we're actually putting on a show for them last time I checked.

[Galvuu]

snip.

Losing Papalymo was a mistake. I don't mind his arc- it's more that he was the cynical, pessimistic voice within the group. Old Shtola was also a rational, hyper-pragmatic scion. No one is currently filling a similar role.
Now the latter became flanderized into a sophisticated "mommy" character that's constantly making sassy remarks and the former is, well, dead.
So there are rarely dissenting voices within the Scions. No one questions if the risk is worth taking for some "greater good", or if that good is really defensible or meaningful. No one goes "this is a bad idea" or "yes, what's the worst that could happen? We all die?". Even logistically, no one rarely goes "this is impossible with our current resources", it's always "we'll figure something out" or "we'll investigate it later". So everyone withing the group is basically on near-perfect agreement at all times, which is a very different dynamic from ARR and early HW.

Edit: that said, Papalymo coming with us to Tural could only go one of two ways- he's brainwashed and stripped of all character and becomes another Llama Tea "yes man"... or just imagine his sarcasm and constant annoyance at her dumbassery. I wish he were there with our WoL, to let her know exactly how dumb what she's saying and doing is.

[Raven2014]

Losing Papalymo was a mistake. I don't mind his arc- it's more that he was the cynical, pessimistic voice within the group. Old Shtola was also a rational, hyper-pragmatic scion. No one is currently filling a similar role.
Now the latter became flanderized into a sophisticated "mommy" character that's constantly making sassy remarks and the former is, well, dead.

So there are rarely dissenting voices within the Scions. No one questions if the risk is worth taking for some "greater good", or if that good is really defensible or meaningful. No one goes "this is a bad idea" or "yes, what's the worst that could happen? We all die?". Even logistically, no one rarely goes "this is impossible with our current resources", it's always "we'll figure something out" or "we'll investigate it later". So everyone withing the group is basically on near-perfect agreement at all times, which is a very different dynamic from ARR and early HW.

You're forgetting about Urianger. But this is why introducing new characters is important, even if you want to keep a trope running, you need new character to carry the old torch, Urianger can't just go behind our back and betray the group the 3rd or 4th time for the greater good, can he?

[Voidmage]

You're forgetting about Urianger. But this is why introducing new characters is important, even if you want to keep a trope running, you need new character to carry the old torch, Urianger can't just go behind our back and betray the group the 3rd or 4th time for the greater good, can he?

We could have had Koana fill a similar role.
Imagine a team of Wuk Lamat, Koana, Bagool JaJa and Zoral ja going into the final act with all the inner conflicts and actual character interactions.
The end credits actually HAVE pictures of them interacting it's sad.
Add Otis and Sphene into the mix with Krile and you would have had a real interesting party doing stuff together and at the end being forced to fight against each other.

We don't need the scions. We need new characters being handled like they deserve and I include Wuk Lamat in this too.
Such a waste of perfectly good characters.

God I wish I could nail this post on the door of Square Enix.

[lolnotacat]

The whole plot with the Endless kind of confirms my suspicions that the writer really dislikes intra-party conflicts. Wuk Lamat clearly believes that the Endless are real people, but is forced to fight to preserve her nation( the entire emotional impact of the last trial hinges on this).Meanwhile, everyone else is handwaving the Endless away as unnatural AI beings and this is causes a massive story disconnect with the player because the two sides never reconcile on this point. So now we have two views on the endless that, when taken together, paint us as being similar like the Ascians, acknowledging the endless have valid feelings, but are lesser so it’s ok to get rid of them.

The moment bun mom OK'd ending them because "They're not alive." and we just nodded along like a goddamn bobble head, I had completely given up on the story and started skipping. Hiroi wanted the emotional impact of Ultima Thule, but used cheap tricks to try and get it, not realizing why that entire zone resonated with almost everyone so deeply. But I shouldn't have expected anything less from Hiroi, he was doing the same thing over and over throughout the story (trying to illicit an emotional response which felt completely hollow) and by the end, he just added a whole layer of unintentional irony ontop by turning us into Ascians.

[Xieldras]

Losing Papalymo was a mistake. I don't mind his arc- it's more that he was the cynical, pessimistic voice within the group. Old Shtola was also a rational, hyper-pragmatic scion. No one is currently filling a similar role.
Now the latter became flanderized into a sophisticated "mommy" character that's constantly making sassy remarks and the former is, well, dead.
So there are rarely dissenting voices within the Scions. No one questions if the risk is worth taking for some "greater good", or if that good is really defensible or meaningful. No one goes "this is a bad idea" or "yes, what's the worst that could happen? We all die?". Even logistically, no one rarely goes "this is impossible with our current resources", it's always "we'll figure something out" or "we'll investigate it later". So everyone withing the group is basically on near-perfect agreement at all times, which is a very different dynamic from ARR and early HW.

Edit: that said, Papalymo coming with us to Tural could only go one of two ways- he's brainwashed and stripped of all character and becomes another Llama Tea "yes man"... or just imagine his sarcasm and constant annoyance at her dumbassery. I wish he were there with our WoL, to let her know exactly how dumb what she's saying and doing is.

I think it's also because Papalymo was a rather unique individual compared to the other Scions. He was the eldest (a "grumpy middle-aged man" that's about Raubhan's age) and a cynical that would call your bs out (he certainly did with Yda-before-Lyse) with strictness but not malice. Right now the group is comprised of all young adult from Old Sharlyan, that feel too much like one another because they're on the same wavelength for almost any situation, even while on opposite teams. Like you said, it's a completely different dynamic from the Scions we fought alongside before.

Man could you imagine if he were still around and brought his snarky ass to Tural? I would've loved to see him lose his mind at the stupidity of some situations. Could've been a greater player stand-in than my own nodding WoL that's for sure.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

So we're just ignoring the remaining, actual living Alexandrians?

No. We killed their Godqueen, destroyed their afterlife and took over their government. We didn't forget them.

[Rotpecra]

after seeing the reception i didn't preorder, and im glad i didnt

pray return to wuk lamat!

[All_Nonsense]

I can agree that the story leaves you to fill in the blanks on Zoraal Ja's motivations. Hmm, I definitely see where you're coming from and you've given me food for thought.

I like filling in the pieces myself because it makes me feel engaged with the story. I very, very much dislike the MSQ forcefeeding the explanations a million times because they're too worried that the player doesn't get it.

What would the balance be in this case would be something that I need to think about. I wouldn't want the story to just explain Zoraal Ja's motivations outright but I can also see why a lot of people think his transformation is too bizarre.

There's a lot of ways these themes can be explored. Wuk going to seek counsel from her adoptive father and accidentally overhearing Zoraal arguing with him. Maybe the argument stemming from Zoraal Ja trying to persuade his father to call off the rite since he's his father's only natural born son. Showing a disregard for the diverse cultures in Tural and trying to assert some of his own philosophies before his father scolds him and shoots down his idea. Something that sows the discontent between the characters that can eventually bridge to Zoraal's motivation for murdering his father. And something that clearly but not obviously dictates to the audience what Zoraal Ja's feelings are. That's just one initial scene that would do wonders to add depth to the character.

You can add other instances where the side characters and audience both interact with Zoraal Ja and see him progress towards a path of "might is right, I will bypass the right of succession and just take Tural for myself." You can have him at some point begin acquiring the stones illegitimately. At first with a "crime of opportunity" that then progresses to non-violent but reprehensible means such as coercion or blackmail, but further down the line progressing once again to outright violence like he did at the end before he opened the gate to the golden city. It would flow more naturally too since it was at this point he finally tossed out the idea of obeying the rite and came to the conclusion that killing his father and just taking the throne is the logical solution to achieve his goals.

Also why does he have a kid again? That was just weird and out of nowhere and made no sense. They didn't even try to make sense of that bit, yet it played a critical part in his final transformation into "mr bad man" in the trial.

[Remiferia]

Not fun or interactive enough to be considered the 'summer vacation expansion', not serious or well-told enough to hold the weight of its more serious themes. I find it quite impressive how there's a writing team in Square Enix that managed to find the perfect middle ground to create the least interesting story possible.

All of the whimsical moments in the trailer either didn't happen at all or were crammed into the final credits. The entire first half could have been a series of Ninja Warrior courses and tasks and duties but instead we were teaching tribes about cold food and bartering with Pelupelu in a way where none of our decisions affected anything at all.

All of the serious moments were bogged down by contrivances, bad voice acting, moral inconsistencies not only within the game as a whole but also within its own core message of cultural understanding, acceptance and celebrating our diversity. The script is awful, the important moments aren't given enough time to breathe, and overall I responded to nearly everything by saying 'Oh they're just doing this again'.

Sphene is another Emet. Alexandria another Amaurot. Her goals are Ascian. They wanted an 'everyone comes together!' moment like the Golem in ShB, they wanted a 'remember these characters from the last expansion?' moment with Vrtra agreeing to put his life on the line for Tuliyollal from a single phone call. We are just bridging gaps between us and beast tribes again. Trying to force a tear out of me by giving me THREE scenarios where I had to say goodbye to a parental figure in the space of an hour was intolerable. How about you actually write a story that makes me emotional on its own merits instead. Desperate.

I would be embarrassed to have written this, tbh. It's just a rehash of all the moral dilemmas we've already experiences and grown from. The story didn't actually say anything at all, nor did any character arcs except perhaps Zoraal Ja. It felt emotionally manipulative in parts and other moments that tried to be emotional on its own were hilariously bad (I'll never get over that train sequence so long as I live).

Just give up on MSQ if this is how it's going to be moving forward. I've never been so bored and frustrated in my life. The raid tier shows more promise in narrative and characterisation in one hour than the entire main story did.