Normal Raids need dps check and enrage time

[Mr_Gyactus]

After trying a few times the 4 normal raids, I came to a conclusion:

you have given all the weight and responsibility to the healers.

Yes, a very noisy and -PARTLY right- group said healing was too easy (and I feel that too, in EW was a walk in the park), but now I say something different.

DPS IS TOO EASY, THEY DIE, fail every rotation and don't take any blame because there is not such a thing as a "dps check" in normal raid.

This is UNFAIR, everyone should be part of the victory and we don't have to win just because the healer is perfect and we have 4 zombies raising over and over until the boss die.

[Erinellza]

No thanks. Leave the normal raids alone.

[Ahelissa]

I think the normal raids are in a good spot now. People have this notion that making things more difficult will gate bad players. Making normal group content more difficult also gates players who are performing well. It's *group* content. The same players that want healing or DPS to be more difficult will be the first to complain when the average random healer or DPS struggles to clear normal a raid and causes their run to take 45 minutes.

[Mr_Gyactus]

I think the normal raids are in a good spot now. People have this notion that making things more difficult will gate bad players. Making normal group content more difficult also gates players who are performing well. It's *group* content. The same players that want healing or DPS to be more difficult will be the first to complain when the average random healer or DPS struggles to clear normal a raid and causes their run to take 45 minutes.

The average random healer already struggle right now, and if I need to "take the token", at this point I queue as a dps, because it's a lot easier and I don't have any pressure.

your notion is wrong, my notion is "IF everyone struggle, no matter what role I queue, I STRUGGLE". It's make thing balanced for everyone, heavy for everyone or light for everyone.

[Tunda]

The average random healer already struggle right now, and if I need to "take the token", at this point I queue as a dps, because it's a lot easier and I don't have any pressure.

your notion is wrong, my notion is "IF everyone struggle, no matter what role I queue, I STRUGGLE". It's make thing balanced for everyone, heavy for everyone or light for everyone.

It is OK to wipe
You have 1 week to clear after all how much it will cost you playtime? 5 hours at max?

[Rueby]

In that case, we need spectator mode.

On a serious note. I was doing Golbez for MSQ yesterday and we wiped 4 times and barely made it with 1 tank 2 vipers, and the second one was me. The tank and the dancer may have been boss mechanics. The tank is in an intimate relationship with the boss' rear, the floor, taking the TBs raw, DNC loves to dash on me with puddles. Tbh I had fun, but I doubt I was able to hit many positionals. Realistically if such thing happened in a normal raid where you have 2 dps, 1 healer 1 tank (light party) who are the ones alive, and you add enrage/dps check, I doubt the content will be clearable once it's no longer current.

Experienced something similar on Athena where a godly LB3 saved the run.

I didn't play DT yet so I don't know what the current situation is like.

[Mr_Gyactus]

I didn't play DT yet so I don't know what the current situation is like.

I summarize DT then.

mechanics are fast chained (almost at the same time, 1-2 sec to adjust).
For example the third boss does:
- 4 zones to cover with a long push when the "thing" drops +
- static bombs exploding in a certain succession +
- a large AOE covering 2/3 of the arena

if you fail the long push you end in a bomb, and take huge damage + stack of vulnerability, AND if you are in the wrong part of the arena you die for the 2/3 aoe. If you already have a stack of vuln you die for the bomb or the aoe.

Now, the problem. After this there are the stack mechanic + continued AOE damage (old titan times), but the shared aoe could kills 4 dps because they got vuln or raise sick.
You can't do anything except "raise-raise-raise-raise" and we have our zombie army.

This is true for the healer as well: if the healers fail a mechanic they take a deserved vuln stack, and they die.
If they die no one is able to raise zombies, if no one raises zombie it's wipe.
As you see, IF the healer doesn't fail the fight continues until the boss dies of old age, IF the healer dies it's very difficult to recover.
And on a note, I struggle when I'm forced to raise or fast full an HP bar, I lose focus and I begin to fail over and over.

So yeah, better if everyone has a fair amount of problems. Instead of vuln stack place the old damage down, and a dps check. At least I don't feel like I'm the only one making the party wipe, because I failed 1 mech.

[PyurBlue]

mechanics are fast chained (almost at the same time, 1-2 sec to adjust).
For example the third boss does:
- 4 zones to cover with a long push when the "thing" drops +
- static bombs exploding in a certain succession +
- a large AOE covering 2/3 of the arena

The push is negated with Surecast and it's infrequent enough that you don't need to worry about cooldown. The time between sets of bombs going off is a bit on the quick side but a pretty fair amount of time is given to analyze them.

As you see, IF the healer doesn't fail the fight continues until the boss dies of old age, IF the healer dies it's very difficult to recover.

I haven't done a lot of normal raid healing yet, but from what I've done healing seems to be fine. Even the big hits on fight 3 automatically coincided with big cooldowns and were dealt with pretty easily. Plus there are two healers. And Potentially 6 res when you factor in DPS. And healer LB3.

I've seen a few disasters in the raids but they're still new. Healers without optimized gear already have enough tools to deal with most stuff so I don't think there is a problem here. Sometimes you'll encounter parties full of players that almost seem like they want to die, but that's not your fault as a healer and it can happen anywhere.

[FuwafuwaMii]

[IMG]In that case, we need spectator mode.

You know, spectator mode would actually be really cool.

[Tunda]

Couldn't agree more

Having this kind of dps check in optional content is 100% valuable before going to savage