You pull you tank question.

[CuteBucket]

I love tanking. I've never had a YPYT mentality. Honestly I don't usually care at all if the DPS get ahead of me for whatever reason, I'll catch up and pull the mobs off them. Managing aggro is my job, after all.

However...

A few days ago, I had a very strange experience in roulettes that I had never, in my years of playing this game, encountered. I'm playing Paladin, and one of the DPS is a Dancer. This dancer keeps popping sprint and running to the next gate, as well as using all of the charges of their gap closer. There is obviously no way I can keep up with that while making sure I have aggro on each mob I'm trying to collect. However I was never so far behind as to put the dancer in any real danger--I would catch up and get all the mobs off of them and the healer would heal them. I didn't even think much of it until this person made a passive aggressive comment in chat. Some juvenile thing like "wow sure would be nice not take so much damage." So I replied asking them what they meant and got back some crap like "?????? what do you think." So I stopped and asked, "Do you have a problem with how I'm tanking?" and they said "maybe," while continuing to race ahead at every pull. "Okay, what is the problem? Your health hasn't been low enough to be in any danger, we're wall-to-wall pulling, and I'm keeping the mobs off of you even though you pulled them, so where is the issue?" I asked. They didn't answer.

Oh yeah, and this player's search info said "if I bully you, it's because you deserve it <3" Yet they can't even form a coherent criticism of my tanking. That's the first time I actually saw the merit in "You pull you tank." Not all of us are here to try to do some advanced movement tech frame perfect speedrun of the dungeon. Yes, I'm going to slow down and collect the aggro of the first pack before I run ahead to the next pack as the tank. It's not a race.

[koko-on-da-forumz]

It's fascinating how we need 56 pages to settle this (and spoiler : it will never be settled)

TP sprint, stance dance
Farlemald, cleric stance
You pull you tank
Leylines, healers adjust

Sam freestyle, mana shift
Braindead strats, freecure fish
Floor tank, tank and spank
Resurrect macros

You don't pay my sub
'Shtola gives the fans a chub
Mod beasts, modded arse
all mechanics are for cars
little sun, reflex test
is that really your best
crit strikes, direct hit
please look forward to it

We didn't start the fanbase
It was always stunning
Since the game's been running
We didn't start the fanbase
We really shoulda knocked it
But instead we hawked it

[GTK0HLK]

-snip-

Nothing against what you said.

But you just gave an example of an exception.
That I\\'m sure you understood fully well.
That people who would support the ego tanks, will show this and use it every single time to back their Ego Chasing.

______________________________________________

I find it funny that in previous pages. they always kept focusing on exceptions (Those who kept defending the ego tanks. Against the scenario where a player speaks/acts badly against the party.)

(Slightly offtopic) it reminded me, in old totorak. I was Healing(think it was WHM, or SCH. likely WHM at the time) and I would run ahead and wait outside of pull range. and the Random Lala DPS would state that I kept doing that, and basically was telling me to not rush ahead. <Not even a Second later. as I responded neutrally to them> they also ran ahead.

Once called out, they immediately began to troll. take damage, run into others.

In the end, at the spider boss, me and the dps had to duo the boss, cause the lala DPS kept trolling the party, and the tank sadly took the brunt of it.
______________________________________________

All this to say, there is a fine, large middle of what is okay. We all generally know it.

and in this thread we are talking about the EgoChasing Tanks who spout the YPYT Memorandum/Oath.

Sad you had to deal with One specific Random DPS who Clearly was just a trouble already made to begin with. Just like the lala who seemed to shirk/project their bs onto others in my example back in old totorak.

Guess simply Put.

The Balance between Idiocy/Ignorance/Ego.
Or
Malice/Hate/Conflict.

One Could Be Asked To Call It.
(LOL)

but one thing for sure.

This topic since Inception was about the tanks who don\\'t know why things are they way they are here. Who value their role higher than it\\'s abilities allow it to be.

[Karkarov]

I love tanking. I've never had a YPYT mentality. Honestly I don't usually care at all if the DPS get ahead of me for whatever reason, I'll catch up and pull the mobs off them. Managing aggro is my job, after all.

However...

A few days ago, I had a very strange experience in roulettes that I had never, in my years of playing this game, encountered. I'm playing Paladin, and one of the DPS is a Dancer. This dancer keeps popping sprint and running to the next gate, as well as using all of the charges of their gap closer. There is obviously no way I can keep up with that while making sure I have aggro on each mob I'm trying to collect. However I was never so far behind as to put the dancer in any real danger--I would catch up and get all the mobs off of them and the healer would heal them. I didn't even think much of it until this person made a passive aggressive comment in chat. Some juvenile thing like "wow sure would be nice not take so much damage." So I replied asking them what they meant and got back some crap like "?????? what do you think." So I stopped and asked, "Do you have a problem with how I'm tanking?" and they said "maybe," while continuing to race ahead at every pull. "Okay, what is the problem? Your health hasn't been low enough to be in any danger, we're wall-to-wall pulling, and I'm keeping the mobs off of you even though you pulled them, so where is the issue?" I asked. They didn't answer.

Oh yeah, and this player's search info said "if I bully you, it's because you deserve it <3" Yet they can't even form a coherent criticism of my tanking. That's the first time I actually saw the merit in "You pull you tank." Not all of us are here to try to do some advanced movement tech frame perfect speedrun of the dungeon. Yes, I'm going to slow down and collect the aggro of the first pack before I run ahead to the next pack as the tank. It's not a race.

So all this means is you got lucky for years. This happens every so often in groups, some idiot dps or healer will intentionally charge in front of you while you are collecting mobs as part of a wall to wall, then act like they are doing anything other than being an annoying moron who is making the run harder and more complicated. No time is getting saved here, they aren't dpsing the mobs you have aggro on so they die a little slower, the healer has to heal them (or themselves) so they lost some dps, you have to possibly move more or do ranged moves with crap damage you normally wouldn't do so tank lost dps and it might have taken a little longer to group the enemies up.

This isn't a tank problem, this is a DPS and or a Healer who is just a jerk problem.

[angelar_]

on second thought, delete all healer gap closers

[Ayan_Calvesse]

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the responsibility of a tank is, then and more players need to be educated. Besides hitting self-mitigation for incoming damage it doesn't matter whether it's 1, 4, or even a THOUSAND mobs hitting you, it's completely out of your hands. Your only job as a tank is to keep hitting AOE buttons, ensure that you are hitting your self-mitigation, and making sure that nothing is hitting your team mates. If someone is 'uncomfortable' pressing rampart to make sure that a pack of mobs doesn't kill them then it isn't even a question about being optimal, they've already failed at being a tank from the outset.

Once you have accomplished those very basic responsibilities, the tank has very little control over whether they live or die and it's all on the healer to supplement your survival, and DPS output to make sure things die before you run out of resources. I think that's the true issue here, which is why we are all saying it's an ego trip: As a tank the amount of control you have is ACTUALLY extremely limited when it comes to multi-mob dungeon pulls, and that lack of control affects the self-image of a tank-player and makes them insecure about their place in the party, which IS a very important part, so they don't do their job and let people die to establish some form of weird dominance, which is so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Once the mobs are in place and hitting you, it is almost entirely up to your group whether or not you live or die (unless you're a skilled Warrior, then you have enough sustain to literally solo everything). Ultimately if you're not comfortable just letting a horde of things beat on you, your literal job as a tank, literally TANKING damage, then just don't play tank.

Aye and the aggro a tank collects is one of the few things they do have control over; so taking that from them makes them more and more helpless. I also see a few folks talking about how now wall to walling could be considered a ToS violation or how now going to pick up the extra adds could be a ToS violation. I think a good example of "expected" gameplay would be to look at how the Trust system functions. The tank only pulls 1 pack at a time; the DPS doesn't run off to grab a 2nd. In the event that the DPS does happen to grab a 2nd pack - the tank will endeavor to pick up the mobs (sometimes; not always and generally not go far out of their way to do so) which would support the argument except for the fact that when acting as a DPS; the trust system does not go to grab extra packs - therefore making the DPS going out to pull extra's the errant behavior (that is to say not the expected natural flow) the thing that is not expected to be done.

Folks should talk to each other more. If they cannot come to an agreement then they should dissolve the party and move on rather then trying to force the other to capitulate to their desires.

[Chrome_Aerial]

what i do as tank being if someone else pulls instead of me is try to pull enemies OFF of them. IF i am not capable of doing this then i just leave them to die and pull the enemy as soon they come in range again.
this rarely happen.

you pull you tank is not something you apply as a standard. usualy this is just a thing if a DPS decided to pull enemy groups and then Sprints away far enough so the tank can't get the enemies off of them.

if you pull enemies as a NON tank. bring them TO the tank. that way you get to play tank as a dps for a few seconds and then drop them off where they belong.
yeah if you don't do that and run off... sorry mate... you got most likely 2 problems chasing you. i might have 10 coming after me. you're on your own until you get back in range

[Zehrylin]

This entire argument is why I have a macro for when I'm brave enough to step into dungeons as a tank (which isn't very often), saying I'm a relatively new dungeon tank and to please be patient with me, and that play tips are appreciated. If someone pulls extra stuff, I'll do my darndest to grab it. If we all die after that... well, I tried, and maybe don't do that next time.

Communication isn't that hard, folks. It is an MMO, after all.

[Reinha]

I think a good example of "expected" gameplay would be to look at how the Trust system functions. The tank only pulls 1 pack at a time; the DPS doesn't run off to grab a 2nd. In the event that the DPS does happen to grab a 2nd pack - the tank will endeavor to pick up the mobs (sometimes; not always and generally not go far out of their way to do so) which would support the argument except for the fact that when acting as a DPS; the trust system does not go to grab extra packs - therefore making the DPS going out to pull extra's the errant behavior (that is to say not the expected natural flow) the thing that is not expected to be done.

Trust tanks also do not run forward from an empty room/corridor on their own, but that doesn't mean that a player tank waiting for a dps to lead the party into the next room is expected behavior. NPC movement is limited by their programming intentionally to allow the player some agency, because it's solo content meant for people who want to have that agency.

However, the trust is consistent no matter what role you play. Whatever mobs are pulled and brought to the tank, all get tanked and killed by the trust NPCs. Without exception. A player tank who is worse than a trust NPC needs to learn to play before stepping into group content with other players.

[frostmagemari]

If you pull something, it is your responsibility to successfully bring it to me if I (for whatever reason) have not pulled them yet. You made the choice to pull after all.
In general, I'm not going to let you die; but I'm not going to go out of my way to save you if you do something stupid either. The healer can raise you after you learn your lesson and you can come back to the fight.