Regarding Dungeon Feedback: Don’t Listen to People Who Don’t Know How to Play

[MegaOddly]

How dare you.

You seem to forget that one side of the feedback was ignored for nearly 3 expansions
I will agree that we need to try (important word here), try to have content for everybody in this game, but there comes a poiint where something has to give.
The content we've had since stormblood was, for the vast majority of the playerbase, mind numbling boring, specially in EW. I had to take a 1 year break from the game and was seriously considering skipping DW because i couldn't, i just couldn't take the content anymore.

Now in Dawntrail we get a crumb, a crumb, of engaging dungeons and boss fights, a raid tier that dosn't put me to sleep and dosn't make me dread getting it in roulettes because the bosses are utterly BORING damage sponges, (especially P8).
I finally get a raid tier that i'm actually queing more than once even after i got my daily rewards to practice my rotations and help people.

I've actually spent an entire afternoon grinding a single dungeon for a set, because i enjoy the dungeon and the combat, do you have any idea when was the last time i did this? In stormblood launch, 6 years ago.

And now, just because the content is a bit more engaging, now that the content is 2 cm up in the difficulty scale, we have to listen to a minority of individuals that are complaining and losing their minds?

Please, no. I understand, i really really do, some people have problems, but we can't keep the game at such a low baseline that we need shovels to find it.

This has been going on for nearly 3 expansions now and it is actually insulting for people to come here and say they are being ignored, because i and a vast majority of midcore players felt ignored for 6 years now.

You also seem to not understand what the word casual means, the people complaining about the difficulty are in no way or shape casuals, we need to stop using the word as a blanket pejorative word. Being casual dosn't mean you are bad at the game.

We need options for the outliers yes, but please. The games combat team has done a wonderful job this expansion, don't bring us back to EW, i beg of you.

To YoshiP and team, and to this thread OP, i agree with you. THANK YOU for this expansions battle content. Me and many others are enjoying it.

I stand by my view the majority of people complaining are the ones that AFK in limsa all day and don't do much passed that once they are done with content of MSQ or the people that only sub for a few weeks every new expansion and don't pay the rest of the time till next expansion.

[MegaOddly]

This isn't a "crumb", and no one at any point advocated for you to not have access to challenging content anywhere. Seriously, it's time to come down off that cross.

I went through the entire story ARR to EW in 2020 it progressively got easier and easier i was getting bored. Now in DT it is actually better and more entertaining. And it is just a small change of making content more engaging is what was changed. It literally was a crumb

[MegaOddly]

Or go the other direction. Have an extremely casual, 0 stress MSQ experience that unlocks some optional dungeons as it goes. Then there wouldn't be any constraints as to how hard they could be.

Pls no....i dont want a game like WOW else id go play WOW

[MegaOddly]

I don't agree with your foil hat summary. People that are making the argument are saying in essence that content which is going to pop up in their daily roulette shouldn't make them regret having joined it.

It seems that a viable solution could be found by redefining things...make a normal roulette that has the content tuned in line with how the game has always scaled, including all the dungeons and then change expert to be essentially the current content or tuned just a bit harder and you've now covered what everyone wants, and not engaging simply becomes a choice. If it's too boring for you, you don't have to do it (although since MSQ is still the most popular roulette, I doubt too many folks'll avoid it), and if expert is too stressful, then the other folks won't have to do it.

The Dailies aren't FOR you. Its meant to filling dungeons and trials in lower level instances so people can get through the story. You are given an incentive to do them

[MegaOddly]

Sure. Yoshi-P once famously said if you want harder content go do Ultimates.

Really that is what your argument is? That doesnt mean we can't have content scale up in difficulty over each expansion

[EiraWoqiso]

i agree with the points you're making here for the most part but that's like nine pots in a row homie you can just put the quotes in one post

[MegaOddly]

i agree with the points you're making here for the most part but that's like nine pots in a row homie you can just put the quotes in one post

im at work and was reading fourms and replying as i got to each post. That is why they all ended up like that

[Jaxtaro]

The Dailies aren't FOR you. Its meant to filling dungeons and trials in lower level instances so people can get through the story. You are given an incentive to do them

You got almost all the way there, but choked at the last step. The entire point of invoking dailies is the incentive, not the intent. In order to fulfill the intended purpose of having enough churn to have a group available when someone working their way through content. That requires a large enough population to want to participate, and if you don't have that, the system falls apart.

The entire point is that the incentive to queue must be there across the board, nothing in this game, because of its linear, story based MSQ is as important as a healthy population to select from in daily roulettes to ensure that downtime is minimized. The overwhelming majority of dailies are done by groups which don't have a single player doing story progression, precisely because they need people incentivized to queue up so that when it is needed, there will be a ready made group waiting for them. If a sizeable enough number of people feel the incentive doesn't justify the stress, then the experience of the people it's aimed at, those consuming the story suffers.

Furthermore, that isn't even entirely accurate. The roulettes are to fill the queue of anyone who needs to do a specific piece of content, not necessarily just low end story based. So if you queue up to do a specific dungeon, the system draws from the roulette pool regardless of whether or not you are going through story based content or not, and the same is true for frontlines. Basically, it's just a system designed to match need (demand) with available players (supply).

[jdtuggey]

You got almost all the way there, but choked at the last step. The entire point of invoking dailies is the incentive, not the intent. In order to fulfill the intended purpose of having enough churn to have a group available when someone working their way through content. That requires a large enough population to want to participate, and if you don't have that, the system falls apart.

Yes, if the game keeps bleeding veterans, it will be hard to get in queue to clear story indeed. It will be hard to learn it too.

The entire point is that the incentive to queue must be there across the board, nothing in this game, because of its linear, story based MSQ is as important as a healthy population to select from in daily roulettes to ensure that downtime is minimized. The overwhelming majority of dailies are done by groups which don't have a single player doing story progression, precisely because they need people incentivized to queue up so that when it is needed, there will be a ready made group waiting for them. If a sizeable enough number of people feel the incentive doesn't justify the stress, then the experience of the people it's aimed at, those consuming the story suffers.

Yes, I need to be incentivized to queue up. I had no incentive to queue up for large swathes of time in Endwalker, cause I didn't really need tomes or xp, and the content was boring.
I was doing roulettes in endwalker only to play with my friends in the latter half. That means I wasn't contributing to the queue, because I didn't like the content all that much. I like gaming with friends tho. ;o
Like, there's always two sides to a coin. When the game is interesting to me, am incentivized to be online, and through just that, I find sprouts to help in novice network and in dungeons, and I try hard in dungeons, making them runs smoother, which might offer someone who's not willing/can't put the average amount of effort a little bit of breathing room. I'm not willing to believe people only run queues because they're incentivized to do so. I know I don't.
What can I say, I like playing the game. ;o; Not saying removing the incentive would work, rather saying that it's more nuanced than "I queue to get tomes". :P

[Jaxtaro]

Yes, if the game keeps bleeding veterans, it will be hard to get in queue to clear story indeed. It will be hard to learn it too.



Yes, I need to be incentivized to queue up. I had no incentive to queue up for large swathes of time in Endwalker, cause I didn't really need tomes or xp, and the content was boring.
I was doing roulettes in endwalker only to play with my friends in the latter half. That means I wasn't contributing to the queue, because I didn't like the content all that much. I like gaming with friends tho. ;o
Like, there's always two sides to a coin. When the game is interesting to me, am incentivized to be online, and through just that, I find sprouts to help in novice network and in dungeons, and I try hard in dungeons, making them runs smoother, which might offer someone who's not willing/can't put the average amount of effort a little bit of breathing room. I'm not willing to believe people only run queues because they're incentivized to do so. I know I don't.
What can I say, I like playing the game. ;o; Not saying removing the incentive would work, rather saying that it's more nuanced than "I queue to get tomes". :P

One of the problems with these kind of discussions is that we are so accustomed to taking "good guy/bad guy" sides that it makes real interaction impossible. There is no part of my post that you responded to which warrants an argument over who is being served or not, because that wasn't the intent of the response, but if you want to go there, fine, let's go there.

People are willing to queue for content which is "too easy" and always have been, and always will be as long as they stand to gain something from it. For evidence, I only need point to the continued popularity if MSQ dailies, which are not only completely braindead content, but are often more time consuming and full of long, unavoidable cutscenes. Your argument in the face of that is literally invalidated.

There were no lack of queues in ShB or EW, both cited as gouge out your eyes boring easymode. The existence of all of these eliminates the notion that daily content being "too easy" drives people away or has a negative impact on queue times.

You have a lot stronger arguments you can use to advocate for more challenging/engaging content...you should probably use those, because this one is a nowhere burger.

At the end of it though, what I was responding to wasn't the difficulty topic in that post you responded to, but a very specific set of claims about what the daily roulettes were.