Regarding Dungeon Feedback: Don’t Listen to People Who Don’t Know How to Play

[VioletCatastrophe]

Perhaps paying attention to the context of the discussion would be in order. I was literally responding to the argument that disabled people want things harder to "overcome the challemge". It was the topic at hand, and the paragraph was relevant to show the absurdity of that claim, which was the actual subject.

Disabled person here. I love overcoming challenges in controlled environments. It gives me a sense of agency in a world that often denies it to me. Stop using me and others like me to make a point we don't agree with. We are people, not props for you to not have to put the effort into getting better. It's embarrassing, and it's also really really offensive.

[Jaxtaro]

And perhaps we should stop exaggerating: to hear you tell it, DT's dungeons are dens of death, requiring a mad mastery of the game to be successful

I mean who's exaggerating now? At no point was this ever a position that I took. My position is that it's simply not worth joining daily roulettes, that it creates too much stress for normal content, and that they aren't even THAT much overtuned, that most of the mechanics are pretty good and that the content is overall pretty fun, but they could use tuning on specific encounters.

This is a LONG, LONG way from how you describe it.

[Jaxtaro]

Disabled person here. I love overcoming challenges in controlled environments. It gives me a sense of agency in a world that often denies it to me. Stop using me and others like me to make a point we don't agree with. We are people, not props for you to not have to put the effort into getting better. It's embarrassing, and it's also really really offensive.

Yeah, I'm not gonna get into a disability competition with you, but I am speaking from personal experience. That should suffice.

[Merrigan]

And perhaps we should stop exaggerating: to hear you tell it, DT's dungeons are dens of death, requiring a mad mastery of the game to be successful

I mean who's exaggerating now? At no point was this ever a position that I took. My position is that it's simply not worth joining daily roulettes, that it creates too much stress for normal content, and that they aren't even THAT much overtuned, that most of the mechanics are pretty good and that the content is overall pretty fun, but they could use tuning on specific encounters.

This is a LONG, LONG way from how you describe it.

This is exactly how I describe it. An exaggeration of what DT's casual content represents.

[Riotas]

In my original suggestion I said

"So I would suggest some easy-to-implement mechanism to aid those people but without changing the difficulty for the normal healthy player.
It's not about making the MSQ fights easier for casuals, it's about making MSQ fights barrier-free.
The easiest way I can think of is adding a voluntary echo option for duty support in MSQ fights. So if you enter with Wuk Lamat + Scions with this option, you still see the same mechanics with the same speed, but you won't die so easily."

My suggestion was adding a option for NPC duty support without changing the fights. And I'm only talking about MSQ fights. I think this shouldn't ruin the experience for the majority of gamers? If you want the challenge, just enter via duty finder instead, nothing changes here, fight stays the same as it is now.
If you're disabled or older but still want the challange, you can also just enter the dungeon via duty finder, that's even better.
It was not meant offensively against those groups of people, I just wanted to provide a voluntary possibility to help them. If you don't like it, just deactivate the option or use duty finder.
Also adding the echo option isn't that complicated I think, because it already exists in many other fights, so it shouldn't take much implementation effort.
Btw, adding echo does not mean you can get hit by every mechanic and just walk through the dungeon. It's not meant as "easy afk mode".

[Riotas]

Do I count as an older gamer being 40? You youngsters don't know what patience or mental resilience is. Try waiting for cassettes to load up a game for several minutes after every death .

You're feeling personally attacked, but with "mental resilience" I actually wanted to refer to the gamers with anxiety issues, not the older people. It was not meant offensively. Sorry for the confusion.
And as I said in my second post, my whole echo suggestion is a voluntary and easy-to-implement option. You can always enter the fight as it is now, nobody is forced to use NPC duty support with echo activated when reaching a certain age.

[Jaxtaro]

It's pretty clear that the most elegant solution would be a 2nd tier of one kind or another that lets people have access to the content which best suits them.

I think ramping it up a little bit from the current difficulty and putting those in the expert queue, then ramping normal down in a few key spots for a normal queue and MSQ and it would be fine.

[Riotas]

It's pretty clear that the most elegant solution would be a 2nd tier of one kind or another that lets people have access to the content which best suits them.

I think ramping it up a little bit from the current difficulty and putting those in the expert queue, then ramping normal down in a few key spots for a normal queue and MSQ and it would be fine.

Uhm Jaxtaro, this sounds like a bigger change that you suggest. Keep in mind that the majority of players do not have a disability/anxiety/handicap/whatever, so sometimes suggesting things that doesn't take away much implementation power from the contents for normal people finds wider acceptance and are more likely to be implemented. (That's me thinking from a pragmatic point of view)
This is why I was suggesting the rather minor change with the echo option.

[Vocal_Night]

You cannot just ask the dev team to ignore one side of the feedback, that's simply not how it's going to work. If you ask the Devs to completely ignore one side of the community then the game won't have a future either, like it or not there is a need for casual players too.

How dare you.

You seem to forget that one side of the feedback was ignored for nearly 3 expansions
I will agree that we need to try (important word here), try to have content for everybody in this game, but there comes a poiint where something has to give.
The content we've had since stormblood was, for the vast majority of the playerbase, mind numbling boring, specially in EW. I had to take a 1 year break from the game and was seriously considering skipping DW because i couldn't, i just couldn't take the content anymore.

Now in Dawntrail we get a crumb, a crumb, of engaging dungeons and boss fights, a raid tier that dosn't put me to sleep and dosn't make me dread getting it in roulettes because the bosses are utterly BORING damage sponges, (especially P8).
I finally get a raid tier that i'm actually queing more than once even after i got my daily rewards to practice my rotations and help people.

I've actually spent an entire afternoon grinding a single dungeon for a set, because i enjoy the dungeon and the combat, do you have any idea when was the last time i did this? In stormblood launch, 6 years ago.

And now, just because the content is a bit more engaging, now that the content is 2 cm up in the difficulty scale, we have to listen to a minority of individuals that are complaining and losing their minds?

Please, no. I understand, i really really do, some people have problems, but we can't keep the game at such a low baseline that we need shovels to find it.

This has been going on for nearly 3 expansions now and it is actually insulting for people to come here and say they are being ignored, because i and a vast majority of midcore players felt ignored for 6 years now.

You also seem to not understand what the word casual means, the people complaining about the difficulty are in no way or shape casuals, we need to stop using the word as a blanket pejorative word. Being casual dosn't mean you are bad at the game.

We need options for the outliers yes, but please. The games combat team has done a wonderful job this expansion, don't bring us back to EW, i beg of you.

To YoshiP and team, and to this thread OP, i agree with you. THANK YOU for this expansions battle content. Me and many others are enjoying it.

[yoshinoharu]

You cannot just ask the dev team to ignore one side of the feedback, that's simply not how it's going to work.

You actually can. If someone's not actually putting any effort into playing your game, and is coming in with a preconception on what they want the game to be and disregard what the game actually is or what the creators want it to be, you can ignore their opinion wholesale because they're coming into it ignoring any type of creator intent. If I go to buy a piece of bread I shouldn't automatically assume it's going to be gluten free. If I go to purchase an apple I shouldn't expect it to taste like an orange. If I'm going to play a game that has a progression system, I should not come into it expecting there to be no difficulty progression. Selfish opinions where people ONLY think that a game should include them by default without any consideration whatsover can and SHOULD be entirely disregarded.