Dawntrail is what happens when you forget your own wisdom

[Reinha]

FF14 welcomes player feedback. YoshiP recently stated that where the story goes after DT will depend at least partically on that feedback, so I don't think "unsub" is necessarily the best response to having issues with an MSQ.

I hope to gods that's true. Wuk Lamat should be entirely forgotten without any more appearances or references starting from 7.1. Or perhaps she could have a "happy little accident" with her axe so that we'd know for sure she will not be lurking in background ready to show up like an abusive ex as soon as the player starts to feel relaxed and hopeful again.

[CuteBucket]

Then stop playing. Vote with your wallet. Sure, you could still keep playing and write forum post after forum post, but what Square ultimately looks at are their metrics. If they see that people are unhappy with the story, but still play this game, they won't really bother to change anything.

I am so tired of seeing this take in every single thread complaining about Dawntrail MSQ. First of all, many of us play for more than just the MSQ, but we still care about the story and want it to be good. The MSQ is what I started playing this game for, but its the group content that made me stick around. I've made friends here, real friends, some of whom I've met with IRL and talk to every day because of this game. This is my community. And maybe it sounds corny, but since the lockdowns in 2020 this game is also my home. It was there for me during some really scary and unprecedented times and brought me so much joy and comfort. If I was just some casual gamer passing through and didn't care about the game much, I probably would unsub. I'm still here because I DO care, quite a lot, and even if only a tiny fraction of feedback gets seen I want to add my voice to that chorus. If the game gets bad enough, I will unsub, as hard as it would be, but until then I want to support the content that is still good while calling on CBU3 to do better with the story, because I know they can, I've seen it before.

[IvoryHawk]

"Well ackhooly we are Azim and we should be doing the chores that emet said, we are diplomatics *pushes glasses up nose* the story isn't about us and you're entitled to think it is #WukLamatRulez ☝️(⌐⊙_⊙)"

[CaptainLagbeard]

It makes sense that the people of Tural wouldn't really know who the WoL is, most people in Eorzea know the WoL's name and reputation, but they probably don't even recognize them when they see them, which they do occasionally abuse to have us do menial tasks before the NPC figures out who you are... So it makes sense that people on a different continent across the ocean don't know about the WoL, despite having literally saved the entire universe.

But that's not the issue, the problem with DT is that the WoL is barely in the story, they're not really present in the story at all. The only time I actually felt like I was playing a character in the story of DT was Shaaloani.

[lolnotacat]

It makes sense that the people of Tural wouldn't really know who the WoL is, most people in Eorzea know the WoL's name and reputation, but they probably don't even recognize them when they see them, which they do occasionally abuse to have us do menial tasks before the NPC figures out who you are... So it makes sense that people on a different continent across the ocean don't know about the WoL, despite having literally saved the entire universe.

But that's not the issue, the problem with DT is that the WoL is barely in the story, they're not really present in the story at all. The only time I actually felt like I was playing a character in the story of DT was Shaaloani.

You bring up another issue that bothered me. Was the End of Days only centered on places we've visited before? Seems pretty convenient. I get that some random Lizard person on the street wouldn't recognize us, but you think there'd at least be throwaway lines. "Oh we're still recovering from the monsters that were attacking." or Galool Ja Ja thanking us once he found out who exactly we are. It could've been written into the story in interesting ways. Zoraal Ja could've seen us as an actual threat once he understood who we were instead of a stupid afterthought line about us "Being dangerous." That could've made him more desperate to beat us and Wuk. DT was so many missed opportunities for character development and interactions beyond making the story revolve around Poochie.

[CaptainLagbeard]

You bring up another issue that bothered me. Was the End of Days only centered on places we've visited before? Seems pretty convenient. I get that some random Lizard person on the street wouldn't recognize us, but you think there'd at least be throwaway lines. "Oh we're still recovering from the monsters that were attacking." or Galool Ja Ja thanking us once he found out who exactly we are. It could've been written into the story in interesting ways. Zoraal Ja could've seen us as an actual threat once he understood who we were instead of a stupid afterthought line about us "Being dangerous." That could've made him more desperate to beat us and Wuk. DT was so many missed opportunities for character development and interactions beyond making the story revolve around Poochie.

Well there were some throwaway lines about a "Great Storm" with the Hanu Hanu at the very start of DT, which may have been the Final Days as they wouldn't have had the knowledge on what was actually happening... but it does very much feel like the writers forgot the Final Days stuff happened.

[Seiki_Kisaki]

the problem with DT is that the WoL is barely in the story, they're not really present in the story at all. The only time I actually felt like I was playing a character in the story of DT was Shaaloani.

This, so much this! If you total up the amount of time that the WoL got a cool moment in each of the previous expansions, in total, each expansion has like 15-20 minutes of cutscenes showing the WoL doing cool things. Yet in the 21 Twelve-forsaken hours of cutscenes in Dawntrail, we don't even get the customary 15 minutes. And people try to paint people who don't like this as the one with main character syndrome.

[lolnotacat]

Well there were some throwaway lines about a "Great Storm" with the Hanu Hanu at the very start of DT, which may have been the Final Days as they wouldn't have had the knowledge on what was actually happening... but it does very much feel like the writers forgot the Final Days stuff happened.

It was pretty vague as to whether or not that was the End of Days though, especially because I don't remember them talking about their friends and family turning into monsters, which is unfortunate because I think the story needs a little time to deal with post end-of-days. The Hanu Hanu zone could've been about cleaning up some remaining monsters in the swamp and helping them finish repairs from the End of Days instead of some contrived story about a boat ritual where the guy who made the boat knew exactly what it was for, but instead of telling his friends to help solve their problem, decided to keep the information to himself so he could divulge it to Wuk.

[Turtledeluxe]

Thank you for this, OP. It's nice to have a rebuttal to all the people defending DT because we just don't like "not being the main character".

Having proof that basically shows that the literal bloody point of the game is for the WoL to be the main character is great.

I see this often. So what that does mean for the future of this IP? Is Yoshi P just the fall guy for the game as it enters some kind of disguised sunset period? That's kinda how it feels. I mean what exactly could he be so busy doing If not a major new game or dealing with a personal issue?

[yoshinoharu]

I don't think we necessarily have to be the "main character" at all times

I think that this is probably where a lot of the argument kind of stems from: We DO have to be the main character, but the story doesn't have to be about us. You see this in a lot of media all the time once the main character's story arc is done. The main character is present and their actions have weight, they are VERY much the driving force in the story, but the story itself might be about a new companion, or the struggles of a different area. This isn't the easiest thing to accomplish, but it's the type of thing that I'd expect out of a studio of professionals. The problem is that Wuk Lamat is both the main character and the primary subject matter of the story. This is why she feels horrendously overexposed.

Think about how much more intriguing the story would have been if we were offering our own adventures and experiences as examples that Wuk Lamat drew examples from. How much more impactful lessons would be if we, the character, tried to warn Wuk Lamat about being too trusting of others and how that lesson would be fully realized with Zoraal Ja's betrayal, how much more impactful it would be if we were a true mentor and admonished questionable behavior instead of being a cheerleader all the time. How much more earned it would be if we were the ones who came to help Wuk Lamat in the end instead of her suddenly gaining an asspull power-up. How amazing it would have been if Alisae and Alphinaud mirrored the decision making process of Gulool Ja Ja's heads of Resolve and Reason, helping Wuk Lamat realize the importance of why both heads made her father an excellent ruler, and through fully realized characterizations ultimately helped inspire Wuk Lamat to continue the tradition to pick Koana as the second Dawn Servant. How heartfelt it would have felt if Krile's story about her birth parents were fully fleshed out and had a bonding moment with Wuk Lamat about losing parental figures.

The problem with the main story is lost agency, and feeling like more of a spectator than involved. This is kind of doubled down on by the lack of actual gameplay within the storytelling as well as the absolutely egregious level of 'tell don't show.'

It's fine for the story to be about Wuk Lamat, but we still have to be the main character and not just watching events unfold on the sideline.