The Negative Impact of Poor Character Writing on the Quality of Dawntrail's MSQ

[Raven2014]

And your reasoning for justifying G'raha Tia's actions extremely easily applies to the Endless, which is my entire point.

Then I don't get your point. Unlike all the previous incarnation of the same theme, the Endless to me is a completely fail attempt to incite an argument that doesn't exist. The Endless is nothing more than projection of a self-serving AI that just happen to have a large amount of data to emulate a person. Say ... since we can already have almost a nominal conversation with chatGPT, and if MS decide to parterup with the people running Vocaloid ... in a decade we'll probably have something like the Endless. At that point, if MS decide to shut down chatGPT server would you be screaming bloody murder? I know I won't.

Do you truly believe he got the permission of everyone in that timeline to wipe them out of existence? That no one, on any world, in that entire universe wanted to keep existing?

And I'll bluntly tell you this kind of argument is ... , well I won't say it because it'll just be mean. But if you want to twisted into a form of universal consensus than:

- Not everyone want to die defending their country, so drafting in a defensive war is genocidal your own population.

- Not everyone want to obey or agree to the law, so the laws shouldn't exist.

- Not everyone want to die for a cause, so even a righteous revolution is a genocidal. Do you really think every single British colonists were all on board the American revolution, like every single one?

- Will you care about writing a story about the evil Washington who forced colonist to become independent from England?

The narrative you try to use here is like bringing a club and just blunt any story telling to death, no exception. The point of the narrative is G'ara was entrusted with the mission and carried the will of the people of his timeline. That's the motif necessary for the story to move forward. Now of course, there probably are 101 ways to poke hole at that story, I'm just saying yours is probably the worst way to do it.

[TELOS]

Then I don't get your point. Unlike all the previous incarnation of the same theme, the Endless to me is a completely fail attempt to incite an argument that doesn't exist. The Endless is nothing more than projection of a self-serving AI that just happen to have a large amount of data to emulate a person. Say ... since we can already have almost a nominal conversation with chatGPT, and if MS decide to parterup with the people running Vocaloid ... in a decade we'll probably have something like the Endless. At that point, if MS decide to shut down chatGPT server would you be screaming bloody murder? I know I won't.

The reason why I said what I said is because people are saying what happened to the Endless is sad because "they're people". I'm bringing up that the same thing applies to G'raha Tia's original timeline that he was willing to erase to say this is not an issue unique to Dawntrail. If you're not saying this, then obviously my point doesn't apply to you.

G'raha Tia was still happy to commit omnicide though.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

And I'll bluntly tell you this kind of argument is ... , well I won't say it because it'll just be mean. But if you want to twisted into a form of universal consensus than:

- Not everyone want to die defending their country, so drafting in a defensive war is genocidal your own population.

- Not everyone want to obey or agree to the law, so the laws shouldn't exist.

- Not everyone want to die for a cause, so even a righteous revolution is a genocidal. Do you really think every single British colonists were all on board the American revolution, like every single one?

- Will you care about writing a story about the evil Washington who forced colonist to become independent from England?

The narrative you try to use here is like bringing a club and just blunt any story telling to death, no exception. The point of the narrative is G'ara was entrusted with the mission and carried the will of the people of his timeline. That's the motif necessary for the story to move forward. Now of course, there probably are 101 ways to poke hole at that story, I'm just saying yours is probably the worst way to do it.

You are the one claiming that having the consent of a handful of scientists means that wiping out their universe is no longer omnicide. You are the one claiming that consent of a tiny group of people given the vastness of the universe removes responsibility for wiping out millions if not billions of people who did not consent and would have never had a clue who the WoL is.

He did not carry out "the will of the people" he carried out the will of one group of people on one continent, on one shard, which ran the risk of wiping out an entire universe. And again, that's not my issue, my issue is how preachy we get about moving forward and not looking back, when one of our friends risked wiping out an entire universe to keep us around. But when it comes to any other people "that's against nature" "we are meant to live and die." Yeah, no one was making that speech when they were inventing timetravel so that we would have the "natural" death we were "meant" to have.

[Raven2014]

You are the one claiming that having the consent of a handful of scientists means that wiping out their universe is no longer omnicide. You are the one claiming that consent of a tiny group of people given the vastness of the universe removes responsibility for wiping out millions if not billions of people who did not consent and would have never had a clue who the WoL is.

I'm sorry, but did you play the same expansion I did? Or were you a cutsceen skipper?

- His timeline were described as completely broken, there was no way just a "tiny group" of people, no matter how smart can accomplish the project.

- Rather, it was described it was a pan-generational projects that were only realized by a collective effort of the people of that time line.

- And the thread that tied the world together were the legend of the WoL.

- His timeline wasnt on a mission to erase itself. They are on the mission to revive the one figure that they believe can delivery them. Erasure wasn't the goal, it was just an accepted risk.

- Just like when you try a dangerous procedure that may kill the patience, the doctor is not accused of murder when the treatmeant went wrong.

He did not carry out "the will of the people" he carried out the will of one group of people on one continent, on one shard, which ran the risk of wiping out an entire universe.

Now you're just reaching. Should we start discussing quantum physic next? The heck is this entire universe thing come from.

Did you forget that in his time line, the First already cease to exist and merge into the source? Can genocide a world that's already no longer exist. Even if you try to argue intention, it doesn't change the fact his mission gave an entire Shard a chance it would never have otherwise.

They just tried to give one world a chance even if theirs is kinda done for no matter what

Exactly

His mission if success, at worst would be able to spare the First from annihilation at the cost of their own. And at best, it will save both if that's what they dare to hope for.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

I'm sorry, but did you play the same expansion I did? Or were you a cutsceen skipper?

- His timeline were described as completely broken, there was no way just a "tiny group" of people, no matter how smart can accomplish the project.

- Rather, it was described it was a pan-generational projects that were only realized by a collective effort of the people of that time line.

- And the thread that tied the world together were the legend of the WoL.

- His timeline wasnt on a mission to erase itself. They are on the mission to revive the one figure that they believe can delivery them. Erasure wasn't the goal, it was just an accepted risk.

- Just like when you try a dangerous procedure that may kill the patience, the doctor is not accused of murder when the treatmeant went wrong.

The timeline isn't "completely broken." People on the Source are fighting over limited resources, yet they have enough resources to dedicate centuries to figuring out timetravel. And you claim that it wasn't even a small group that had enough free time and support to do this, so by your own argument there is a society functional enough to work on getting into the Crystal Tower and rewriting history, imagine what they could have accomplished if they had put all that effort towards moving forward rather than looking back. Do you really believe the First was in better shape than the Source in the alternate timeline?

And keep in mind, because of the short story we know that Midgard woke up and is helping them forge a path forward which means there was a path forward, but they spent 200 years looking back, even if it meant ending their own existence, but it didn't, which means now they have to move forward and fix their problems anyway. Had G'raha stayed, they could have had their own Crystarium, they knew changing history would do absolutely nothing for them and they were okay with that, but they also risked wiping out people who wouldn't have been okay with that.

Like you can't argue that it was this massive generational project AND they were so fubared it was okay for them to give up on their own universe because one piece of one planet was going through it's 7th dark age.