You pull you tank question.

[OdinelStarrei]

And that is perfectly valid, if it works for you, but not everyone agrees with you, but even beyond that is the fact that by my experience and that of many others, the average "dps puller" is more of the kind of either staying with the mobs and hoping the rest of the party follows suit, or the headless chickens that just randomly run past the party and one has to chase to aggro, and now, a third new breed, which is the "tank vibe checker", the ones who have participated in the last few months of discussion and just do it to see how the tank reacts to it, of which i have already found a few.

Of course the experience probably varies by person but yeah.

You said there was "literally no reason that is not petty." And I gave you a perfectly reasonable example of where it's preferred. I even said that it's a rarity, but it does exist. If the player who is pulling for me is actually incompetent, I as tank have an overwhelming amount of control, because DPS lack tank stance enmity multipliers, and ranged aggro tools. If a DPS has pulled ahead of me, and just stays at the first pack (somehow I'm not right next to them?) Ok, that's fine. AoE once, we move on. I'll even give them a short term mitigation as I'm running up if I know the CD will reset by the time we stop at the wall. Headless Chicken that, while we were running to the next pack decided to single target high potency GCD attack one single enemy that causes them to rip aggro (see: PCT), that's fine. I press tab-target how many times are needed and press ranged aggro tool once. If they are slightly out of range of that, use provoke's increased range instead on the soonest GCD weave.

I've never been vibe checked by a DPS, so I don't know exactly how I would react if someone did it. Like I said, I'm very rarely in a position where DPS have any sort of control in the pull that I didn't allow them to have for an intended reason. The enmity changes are too substantial for non-tanks to have any true autonomy if the tank has experience, or even more importantly, confidence in the role.

I'm also not going to sit here and say that there are not situations where I do not want the DPS to pull to be a universal contrarian for typical tank/dps relationships. 8 mans where I rely on the first hit to be on tanks for pre-pull shenanigans can be ruined if the RPR accidentally Soulsows twice. Or the DNC fatfingers Standard prep. But under no circumstance would I, like, throw a fit about it. It's whatever. It's not that serious. Whatever gets the objective done faster/easier/with no comms, that's what I'll do, and support the party by any means. It ain't worth the effort to foster animosity of any kind, and there's no need for malice. I start a fight, help me end it. You start a fight, I'll help you end it. That's the game.

[Ruruura]

Imagine thinking a player playing the game game is being petty that you decide to purposely kill that player and thinking you're justified in doing that, crazy right lmao. Just admit you're a malicious person who wants to exert their ego on the "petty" dps/healer who's just trying to play the game.

I never said i engage in YPYT myself but nice projection lmao.
All i am saying is that there are as many egotistic and vibechecking dps and healers as there are tanks who think they are the next queen of England.

And i am tired of this board pretending it is not the case.

[Iustitia-sama]

I never said i engage in YPYT myself but nice projection lmao.
All i am saying is that there are as many egotistic and vibechecking dps and healers as there are tanks who think they are the next queen of England.

And i am tired of this board pretending it is not the case.

Projection lmao, maybe you shouldn't write in such a way that makes it sound like you endorse this kind of behaviour as it's not a stretch to think if someone endorses it they must engage in it too, but keep malding though.

[Ruruura]

Projection lmao, maybe you shouldn't write in such a way that makes it sound like you endorse this kind of behaviour as it's not a stretch to think if someone endorses it they must engage in it too, but keep malding though.

I would accept the malding comment if it did not come from a community that makes like 50 "tanks bad, m i rite LOL" threads per week across the forum and reddit.
Heck, just a couple or three days ago we had like four tank related threads in the first page of this very board.

You people are obsessed with all these mythical worst case scenario mega egotyrant tanks that we have all met like twice a year but somehow warrant permanent and unending debate.

[Reinha]

Because tanking in casual content is apparently hard, let me enlighten you on the tank's rotation which you can do in like, 95% of the dungeons. The ones where you can't do it, you can easily memorize once this goes wrong:

1: press Sprint before pulling any sort of aggro. 20 seconds of zoomies!
2: ranged attack or dash into the 1st group of enemies. Your pick.
3: AOE skill once or twice to really grab their aggro.

Right here. This is the step where the DPS will double dash ahead and pull the next group.

But the next steps would resolve it automatically:

4: Sprint should still be up for ~10 seconds or more. Run to 2nd group.
5: AOE skill them too.
6: Press any percentage mitigation (30% job mit OR 20% Rampart role mit) + enemy debuff such as Reprisal OR Arm's Length.

A tank's gameplay is unaffected by what the dps or healer is doing. I don't understand what the problem is, unless there are ego related issues.

[Wildheaven182]

As healer i wouldnt heal the tank but theyll probably live anyway.
You could yoink them with a rescue is about all
Or super overheal yourself to try to draw aggro and run away with the mobs xD
If theyve turned off tank stance

[LilyPendragon]

I don't understand what the problem is, unless there are ego related issues.

That's all it boils down to. They just won't admit it, and instead bloviate about how it makes their job harder or makes wiping more likely (both of which are patently nonsense)

[Rychu]

Even with Dawntrail being "harder" than previous expansions, there is really no reason to not W2W that doesn't stem from ego. It is literally just "press one of your long cooldowns, then press short cooldown" by then most of the mobs should either be dead or close. By the next pull youll have your next long cooldown and your short will be back up. Stupidest argument ever.

[VoidsentStatus]

should either be dead or close.

This is what most people seem to not understand. Should is not the same as actually existing. Should I have a healer that doesn't do aoe damage? No. But if I run 100 dungeons, I will find several of them. Should a dps know their aoe rotation by ShB,EW,DT? Yes. But that doesn't mean that will happen every run. If you go to Youtube and type in "dawntrail final trial cutscenes" and find a certain upload that was around 3 weeks ago, 40k views, 36min long, you will see a player that is at the final trial in DT. That is using aoe abilities on a single target boss. That is doing 3-5 oGCD's consistently before a GCD. That is taking 10-15s off of using GCD's. That is weaving slowly to the point of consistently clipping the downtime rotation even. And all of these non-optimal mistakes are made consistently throughout the entire fight and are not just merely misclicks. Should this be happening at Level 100 content? No. But guess what? Someone had them in party for every dungeon and trial they did up to that point. A tank dealt with them at some point. At no point has a tank ever asserted that these incidents happen every run or that they happen most runs. "Should" is not an argument against YPYT because it does not cover 100% of instances, and therefore does not address every situation.

[GTK0HLK]

This is what most people seem to not understand. Should is not the same as actually existing. Should I have a healer that doesn't do aoe damage? No. But if I run 100 dungeons, I will find several of them. Should a dps know their aoe rotation by ShB,EW,DT? Yes. But that doesn't mean that will happen every run. If you go to Youtube and type in "dawntrail final trial cutscenes" and find a certain upload that was around 3 weeks ago, 40k views, 36min long, you will see a player that is at the final trial in DT. That is using aoe abilities on a single target boss. That is doing 3-5 oGCD's consistently before a GCD. That is taking 10-15s off of using GCD's. That is weaving slowly to the point of consistently clipping the downtime rotation even. And all of these non-optimal mistakes are made consistently throughout the entire fight and are not just merely misclicks. Should this be happening at Level 100 content? No. But guess what? Someone had them in party for every dungeon and trial they did up to that point. A tank dealt with them at some point. At no point has a tank ever asserted that these incidents happen every run or that they happen most runs. "Should" is not an argument against YPYT because it does not cover 100% of instances, and therefore does not address every situation.

This is confusing, it sounds like you're talking about the generally understood outliers one faces in old content, as well as the Concept of "Basic Competency" that a minority in the forums takes as a form of elitism, when it's just about having players know the bare minimum when it comes to doing their part in Content with other players.

Which, YPYT is only a small fragment of the said variables that can show up. (And "SHOULDN'T" be something that shows up. Cause it's always about the Ego of a Tank.)
[And in the times it isn't the Tank, it's Clear as day where it's occurring. as Tanks, Healers, and DPS that understand what Basic Competency is, Know where thr issues are. and are also understanding and forgiving of accidents.]