Yoshi P - Your next live letter, DT msq and the damage to the brand

[Zackneifein]

This. I couldn't care less about the story if they focus on the content instead this expansion and deliver on that, the MSQ is probably not even 5% of my time spent in the game.

Just look at Stormblood, mediocre MSQ but it delivered on both content and gameplay which makes people remember it as one of the best expansions.

Stormblood is nealry each time, in any ranking fan or any website, either last or just above ARR. That's what I'm saying, this kind of thinking is delusional.

It's like in WoW, when sometimes hardcore raiders are threatening Blizzard with strike or things like that. Blizzard don't care of a few thousands or ten of thousands of players, when millions of casual players are paying their sub doing casual content.
The casual content of FFXIV is the MSQ.

Edit : And most of the good about Stormblood is from the patches, where, in fact, the MSQ is far better than the main expansion.

[Volgia]

It's damage because it's a bad MSQ in a game in which the MSQ is mandatory which means it's a colossal barrier to entry. Although you're liking it, you're in the vast minority. Even people who have gave positive reviews have mainly stated the MSQ is terrible but the rest of the game is good. Overall it's been pretty well accepted that this MSQ was not good.

Uh.... isn't this kind of confirmation bias? LIke where is this consensus coming from, these forums? Reddit? Some people here are comparing it to the damage 1.0 did because they want to push the narrative that Dawntrail was a terrible failure for some reason.

I don't know if you remember, but even during Endwalker there was a 1000 page post on how very very bad the story was. And it didn't "damage" the FF brand at all.

[Zackneifein]

Uh.... isn't this kind of confirmation bias? LIke where is this consensus coming from, these forums? Reddit? Some people here are comparing it to the damage 1.0 did because they want to push the narrative that Dawntrail was a terrible failure for some reason.

I don't know if you remember, but even during Endwalker there was a 1000 page post on how very very bad the story was. And it didn't "damage" the FF brand at all.

The reviews from "professional" website and the content creators. Endwalker was universally praised by both of them, the complains were mainly contained in this forum.

No expansion had so much divisive review (and I'm not talking about user's one with review bombing on both side becoming a well known thing) than Dawntrail nor had the content creator giving this "meh" feeling about it.
And that's two of the best entry point for new player that an MMORPG need to stay alive. I mean, even in some of the good reviews, they say that the MSQ is mid at best, praising only the rest.

You may find it stupid or unfair but no expansion, even Stormblood, have ever been as divisive as Dawntrail and it's a problem for Square Enix.

[CerusSerenade]

The reviews from "professional" website and the content creators. Endwalker was universally praised by both of them, the complains were mainly contained in this forum.

No expansion had so much divisive review (and I'm not talking about user's one with review bombing on both side becoming a well known thing) than Dawntrail nor had the content creator giving this "meh" feeling about it.
And that's two of the best entry point for new player that an MMORPG need to stay alive. I mean, even in some of the good reviews, they say that the MSQ is mid at best, praising only the rest.

You may find it stupid or unfair but no expansion, even Stormblood, have ever been as divisive as Dawntrail and it's a problem for Square Enix.

Stormblood was ABSOLUTELY more divisive and your insistence that it wasn't just shows you weren't around for it, or are just being dishonest.

[Volgia]

The reviews from "professional" website and the content creators. Endwalker was universally praised by both of them, the complains were mainly contained in this forum.

No expansion had so much divisive review (and I'm not talking about user's one with review bombing on both side becoming a well known thing) than Dawntrail nor had the content creator giving this "meh" feeling about it.
And that's two of the best entry point for new player that an MMORPG need to stay alive. I mean, even in some of the good reviews, they say that the MSQ is mid at best, praising only the rest.

You may find it stupid or unfair but no expansion, even Stormblood, have ever been as divisive as Dawntrail and it's a problem for Square Enix.

Says who that it's a problem for Square Enix? Did people mass unsub or something?

Like scores from "Professional websites" don't matter. IGN and Gamespot gave it an 8 which is "great" by their measurement but I don't trust a review score anymore to measure the success of a game. Especially a live-game.
As for content creators I don't know what to say, like really, I've seen a FLOOD of FF Content on youtube and social media like I hadn't seen in any other expansion.

[Malthir]

Uh.... isn't this kind of confirmation bias? LIke where is this consensus coming from, these forums? Reddit? Some people here are comparing it to the damage 1.0 did because they want to push the narrative that Dawntrail was a terrible failure for some reason.

I don't know if you remember, but even during Endwalker there was a 1000 page post on how very very bad the story was. And it didn't "damage" the FF brand at all.

Take a look at the user reviews not just the, it's shit or it's great all the reviews where people left genuine feedback, all of them ever the positive reviews mention how poor the story is. when the people who are pro you also agree story bad, when the content creators that usually go to bat for the game are also responding negatively, yes it's not good. From a purely creative writing stand point it's poorly written. You can like something that's poorly written but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

At very very best it's ARR level, at best. We know that's a big barrier to entry, so imagine trying to on board a new customer that knows the ARR is not very good, so i go through that, then have another ARR level slog to get through. That's a problem, that's why people are talking about brand damage

[Zackneifein]

Stormblood was ABSOLUTELY more divisive and your insistence that it wasn't just shows you weren't around for it, or are just being dishonest.

Inside the active community. The one that is already paying or has already paid.
Not outside.

That's my point. Square Enix need FFXIV because it's basically how they gain money with all the successive failure they experienced. They need on constant flux of new player to compensate all those who stop.
We are a minority, those who go on reddit or that don't care about scores.

Says who that it's a problem for Square Enix? Did people mass unsub or something?

We will see. But you realize it hasn't been even one month since it's official release ?

[Turtledeluxe]

I think between job design and story, their brand is damaged. If encounter design wasn't improved this xpac would have the forums in a frenzy

And there would be subsequent word of mouth the Game is in decline on social media.

It's a good thing that the maps and fights were good, basically. I mean we are looking at a 78 MC, 6 ish user score...DT is one peg from falling off a cliff.

[Volgia]

Take a look at the user reviews not just the, it's shit or it's great all the reviews where people left genuine feedback, all of them ever the positive reviews mention how poor the story is. when the people who are pro you also agree story bad, when the content creators that usually go to bat for the game are also responding negatively, yes it's not good. From a purely creative writing stand point it's poorly written. You can like something that's poorly written but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

At very very best it's ARR level, at best. We know that's a big barrier to entry, so imagine trying to on board a new customer that knows the ARR is not very good, so i go through that, then have another ARR level slog to get through. That's a problem, that's why people are talking about brand damage

I've read the reviews on Steam which is mostly just dogpiling and complaining about Wuk Lamat, but really, meh. It's been a few weeks since the game officially launched, and i keep seeing more and more players logging in and crafting and doing endgame content.

Dawntrail's story and charaters are vastly superior to ARR, you got Erenville, Sphene, Caciwa and all the thirsts for Bakool Ja Ja, you got the upcoming raids with more characters too. Please, spare me this comparison. You are allowed to dislike and not care about the story, I did it in post-HW, SB and post-Endwalker but to jump into brand damage as if FF is ruined is beyond me.

You want to see a TRUE brand damage, look at Overwatch.

[Raven2014]

So, what next Yoshi P? Carry on as we are or announce revisions?

If he's smart (which he is), he will say nothing while letting him team fixing the mess. And I'm saying this as one who very vocal about my disappointment of the MSQ, but I neither need nor care about the instant gratification or validation.

The fact of the matter is it doesn't matter what Yoshi says or admit right now, it won't fix or change anything short term. It will just 99% make the problem worse because the internet (which I'm a part of) is not kind, all it would do is giving most haters (like myself) the validation to double and putting even more pressure on his team.

It can't be just words, the situation is so bad that the next time he addresses the issue, he needs to carry some physical bargaining chips to back up his words.

I dearly hope behind the scene they're doing a hard review and re-pivoting the story ASAP, and I want to see it happens in patches ASAP. But the earliest time Yoshi gonna talk about it probably near the end of the expansion.

This way he can manages future expectation. Even if changes gonna happen soon, there is no guarantee it will be good or well received.

If the change is good, he can point at it (after the fact) and claim they listen and make thing better, building more hype to future expansion.

If the change is bad, he can pretend DT's msq as a whole is a fail project and promise to be better in the future.

Because he openly admit mistake and promise change now and it turns out bad, things gonna be worse, MUCH worse.


I hate DT's MSQ with a passion, I had make my opinion loud and clear. I hope they took note and working on a change. But like I said I don't care about having my ego soothed by a validation from Yoshi or his team in the short term, I'm more interested in actual action.