Regarding Dungeon Feedback: Don’t Listen to People Who Don’t Know How to Play

[Roda]

And perhaps we should stop exaggerating: to hear you tell it, DT's dungeons are dens of death, requiring a mad mastery of the game to be successful

I mean who's exaggerating now? At no point was this ever a position that I took. My position is that it's simply not worth joining daily roulettes, that it creates too much stress for normal content, and that they aren't even THAT much overtuned, that most of the mechanics are pretty good and that the content is overall pretty fun, but they could use tuning on specific encounters.

This is a LONG, LONG way from how you describe it.

Sweetheart...
I play on crystal and these dungeons are a breeze here. Even in one instance where we had a floortank blm and a poor healer trying to spatula them up I was having more fun than any of my EW/SHB runs...
Even last night i had a run of the fourth raid boss and we wiped a couple times 'cause the healers got blindsided by a couple mechanics and weren't expecting the healing intensity of the last bit. We carried on and had fun anyway?
My time certainly felt less wasted since I was actively playing the videogame i'm paying for instead of pressing my buttons and waiting for the hp bar to give me my win while watching youtube on my other monitor...

EW I was raid logging because the daily roulettes weren't worth my time. Now I'm joining people who want help with new content for fun.

[Stoffan]

I guess you didn't read their post... nothing you said has anything to do with what they said.

[Mooserocka33]

How dare you.

You seem to forget that one side of the feedback was ignored for nearly 3 expansions
I will agree that we need to try (important word here), try to have content for everybody in this game, but there comes a poiint where something has to give.
The content we've had since stormblood was, for the vast majority of the playerbase, mind numbling boring, specially in EW. I had to take a 1 year break from the game and was serio.

To YoshiP and team, and to this thread OP, i agree with you. THANK YOU for this expansions battle content. Me and many others are enjoying it.

I agree, this is what pisses me off about these people . The devs go OUT OF THIER WAY TO MAKE THINGS EASIER!!!! They never give us a crumb ever. WE finally get one and the bad players not even casuals complain. I have seen honestly casual players refute them its great to see. I was hardcore but now have become a casual player because i got so bored with how the game was for years to be fair i lost interest. The devs never listened to us until ultimates which i still do not like because you get barely any reward for doing something so challenging. Its just yay i did it atleast give amazing mounts , minions, weapons with double auto attack or something like that. Something worth doing something that hard. But bad players that say they are tired of getting nothing they get EVERYTHING!!!!!. midcore get nothing. you made good points.

[Jaxtaro]

This isn't a "crumb", and no one at any point advocated for you to not have access to challenging content anywhere. Seriously, it's time to come down off that cross.

[Kalocin]

They should listen to the feedback by improving the tutorial infrastructure that has been left to rot as people reach 100 without knowing what a keybind is or how to reach 30+ buttons on a controller or what is a GCD and why that matters.

They absolutely should not respond by allowing clearing content of any kind while neglecting basics. It's deeply poisonous to the very foundation of the video game.

Pretty much the heart of the issue. Yoshida recently said in an interview that they didn't add an intermediate tutorial as a requirement because they didn't want people to be excluded for not doing it. Problem is, you can't increase mechanics difficulty at the same time and expect people to just adapt without it being frustrating.

It's crazy that the MSQ doesn't utilize breaks between cutscenes with narrative tutorial duties. They were kind of doing that before but it stopped for some reason. It's a really good way to both make it required and also ironically add some variation to the MSQ.

[Mlem]

Or go the other direction. Have an extremely casual, 0 stress MSQ experience that unlocks some optional dungeons as it goes. Then there wouldn't be any constraints as to how hard they could be.

[yoshinoharu]

Or go the other direction. Have an extremely casual, 0 stress MSQ experience that unlocks some optional dungeons as it goes. Then there wouldn't be any constraints as to how hard they could be.

The problem is that many of the complaints are directed at optional content. The progression of difficulty through the MSQ experience is actually very, very mild and the people voicing opinions that THAT content is too hard are extremely minimal and niche opinions. Many people are complaining about the optional unlockable dungeons, normal raids, EX trials, etc. It is content that is supposed to be tuned for players that have already completed the game and are looking for further challenge and to be rewarded for accomplishing those challenges.

I think the bigger disconnect is that people are trying to consider a roulette that is labeled Expert to be too difficult for a casual player, or that normal raids should be 'casual content,' when in reality it should be more mid-tier in difficulty and expectation to start preparing you for the harder challenges ahead.

My kind of tin foil hat theory is that people see that optional content has rewards, and they do not want to put in any effort to be rewarded.

[Jaxtaro]

I don't agree with your foil hat summary. People that are making the argument are saying in essence that content which is going to pop up in their daily roulette shouldn't make them regret having joined it.

It seems that a viable solution could be found by redefining things...make a normal roulette that has the content tuned in line with how the game has always scaled, including all the dungeons and then change expert to be essentially the current content or tuned just a bit harder and you've now covered what everyone wants, and not engaging simply becomes a choice. If it's too boring for you, you don't have to do it (although since MSQ is still the most popular roulette, I doubt too many folks'll avoid it), and if expert is too stressful, then the other folks won't have to do it.

[EiraWoqiso]

Pretty much the heart of the issue. Yoshida recently said in an interview that they didn't add an intermediate tutorial as a requirement because they didn't want people to be excluded for not doing it. Problem is, you can't increase mechanics difficulty at the same time and expect people to just adapt without it being frustrating.

It's crazy that the MSQ doesn't utilize breaks between cutscenes with narrative tutorial duties. They were kind of doing that before but it stopped for some reason. It's a really good way to both make it required and also ironically add some variation to the MSQ.

I honestly think that reintroducing Levequests for jobs could fill this niche. Tank leves that require/reward you for mitigating (maybe less damage taken=more reward?), healer leves that require you to properly heal an NPC *and* DPS, DPS leves that reward doing mildly complex mechanics while still doing your rotation could all be really beneficial as something of an optional tutorial.

[Post]

I've more often stopped queuing for particular roulettes due to the monotony not being worth the reward instead of the difficulty not being worth the reward.

I still don't bother queuing for MSQ roulette (haven't since even before the enforced cutscenes), guildhests because most mechanics are ignored, and Alliance Raids at all because since leveling 7.0 because I have to fear getting not only CT but also MotR. Lord knows I'd rather get my weekly tomestones any way other than expert roulette since it was consigned to 2 simultaneous dungeons that aren't novel past the first visit, but unfortunately those daily experts are tuned to be the most rewarding in weekly tomes, even a decade of alternate content later.

Just suggesting that there are and have always been people on the opposite side of the difficulty/monotony balance equation.