Dawntrail is so painful; is it on purpose?

[Kaedan]

Nothing has changed. The formula for the MSQ is the same as it's always been. There isn't any less or more "action" than there always has been. It's always been mostly go from point A to point B and talk to NPCs, have MAYBE 1 small encounter (you know, those purple glowy circles), then towards the end of section have a bigger fight (the shiny rainbow circle around the NPC) and then sprinkle the dungeons in every other level.

They have literally followed that formula for a decade. And it works.

The issue THIS time is that people don't understand the concept of De-escalation. You see, we came off of pretty much the highest note you can get to in a story (Endwalker's storyline). You can't top that kind of climax. If you want to continue a story after something like that, you have to deescalate and "reset" the baseline. And that's exactly what Dawntrail does.

Yes, the story isn't super grand or world-shakingly important.... it's not MEANT to be. It's meant to bring us back to a baseline. And a lot of people don't understand that.

That, or they're the people who just skip the story and don't have a clue what's going on, and then they don't like the only things they have seen because they don't have the full picture.

[Alchemii]

Nothing has changed. The formula for the MSQ is the same as it's always been. There isn't any less or more "action" than there always has been. It's always been mostly go from point A to point B and talk to NPCs, have MAYBE 1 small encounter (you know, those purple glowy circles), then towards the end of section have a bigger fight (the shiny rainbow circle around the NPC) and then sprinkle the dungeons in every other level.

They have literally followed that formula for a decade. And it works.

The issue THIS time is that people don't understand the concept of De-escalation. You see, we came off of pretty much the highest note you can get to in a story (Endwalker's storyline). You can't top that kind of climax. If you want to continue a story after something like that, you have to deescalate and "reset" the baseline. And that's exactly what Dawntrail does.

Yes, the story isn't super grand or world-shakingly important.... it's not MEANT to be. It's meant to bring us back to a baseline. And a lot of people don't understand that.

That, or they're the people who just skip the story and don't have a clue what's going on, and then they don't like the only things they have seen because they don't have the full picture.

That isn't even the issue. The issue is the story is poorly written, with poorly thought out characters, this is the issue. If it was a good story, with likeable characters, then the formula wouldn't be an issue, but that's not what they gave us.

[Kaedan]

That isn't even the issue. The issue is the story is poorly written, with poorly thought out characters, this is the issue. If it was a good story, with likeable characters, then the formula wouldn't be an issue, but that's not what they gave us.

Completely disagree. For a reset/de-escalation, I thought the story was actually quite good. I also understand Japanese and listen to it in Japanese, so that might make a difference.

Frankly, I think this is more about the voice actors than the story. There's controversy around the VAs in English and I think that is coloring people's perspectives.

Also, again, I can say with high confidence that the people who generalize and make blanket claims that "story was bad, characters were bad" etc didn't actually read/watch the whole story.

[Barachim]

Completely disagree. For a reset/de-escalation, I thought the story was actually quite good. I also understand Japanese and listen to it in Japanese, so that might make a difference.

Frankly, I think this is more about the voice actors than the story. There's controversy around the VAs in English and I think that is coloring people's perspectives.

Not everyone is terminally online on twitter. I didn't even know until last week that there was controversy surrounding the VA. And I still don't know what it was about, because I didn't care to look into it, whatever they do or say in privat doesn't affect their performance.

But since you listen to it in Japanese anyway, have you even experienced the worst moments for yourself? Like the final trial, that deflates the whole moment with the bad voice acting?

Also, again, I can say with high confidence that the people who generalize and make blanket claims that "story was bad, characters were bad" etc didn't actually read/watch the whole story.

Or, hear me out, people read/watched the whole story, and that's why they can confidently form the informed opinion that it's the worst story, with the most bland characters out of all the expansions we got so far.

[Dogempire]

Not everyone is terminally online on twitter. I didn't even know until last week that there was controversy surrounding the VA. And I still don't know what it was about, because I didn't care to look into it, whatever they do or say in privat doesn't affect their performance.

But since you listen to it in Japanese anyway, have you even experienced the worst moments for yourself? Like the final trial, that deflates the whole moment with the bad voice acting?



Or, hear me out, people read/watched the whole story, and that's why they can confidently form the informed opinion that it's the worst story, with the most bland characters out of all the expansions we got so far.

Honestly, even if the story was actually good, which in my case I'd give it a 35% failing grade, the lack of any meaningful gameplay and overreliance on the same old boring formula would absolutely be a valid criticism to say that the xpac MSQ is bad, I've never once in my XIV MSQ experience kept checking the quest level and going "Oh thank yaoi, we get a dungeon in another level so I actually get a chance to do something meaningful."

It's tired, it's boring, and I wish they would stop sticking to the same formula because the MSQ dungeons/trials being too predictable and lacking any sort of variation on what levels they are makes it extremely easy to predict when the plot twists are, and it's also extremely easy to tell what the trial is by simply seeing who looks like a big bad around the 93/ 99, and 100 level marks.

[Chuhsu]

Completely disagree. For a reset/de-escalation, I thought the story was actually quite good. I also understand Japanese and listen to it in Japanese, so that might make a difference.
Frankly, I think this is more about the voice actors than the story. There's controversy around the VAs in English and I think that is coloring people's perspectives.
Also, again, I can say with high confidence that the people who generalize and make blanket claims that "story was bad, characters were bad" etc didn't actually read/watch the whole story.

By now I have seen several comments in the English Forum questioning if...or stating that the Japanese version is better. As someone who plays every expansion in JP and on JP DC, I will testify that bad writing is bad writing in 7.0 regardless of whether it is in English or Japanese.

If people need more evidence they can go to the megathread on the Japanese forum, many critics there express similar concerns as those in English. They tend to be a bit euphemistic but are still clearly pointing out the problems, and some of them are just outright criticizing, which is a rare situation.

Edited to add the mentioned megathread link here: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...81%84%E3%81%A6

Also on one aspect Wuk Lamat is even worse in JP: she is strangely impolite in her choice of second person pronouns and how she almost never speaks in polite form. It might be a shonen trope thing, but to be honest, can't say the JP players receive that very well, since it is also stated she is a princess and would be queen.

[ThorneDynasty]

Nothing has changed. The formula for the MSQ is the same as it's always been.

This isn't even true between DT MSQ and DT role quests.

[Gullis]

This isn't even true between DT MSQ and DT role quests.

how is it not true?

[ThorneDynasty]

how is it not true?

Have you actually played the tank role quest for example?

MSQ: We have to catch an alpaca > Wuk Lamat goes to catch an alpaca in a cutscene.
Role quest: We have to stop these rampaging monsters > Find someone attacked by monsters and defend them in gameplay.

MSQ: Oh no the villain is trying to get away > We stand there haplessly in a cutscene as the villain leaves, not even trying to stop them.
Role quest: Oh no the villain is trying to get away > Immediate transition from cutscene to gameplay, you are attacked by villain's goons as they make their escape, using gameplay to explain why the plot beat makes any logical sense.

[Gullis]

Have you actually played the tank role quest for example?

MSQ: We have to catch an alpaca > Wuk Lamat goes to catch an alpaca in a cutscene.
Role quest: We have to stop these rampaging monsters > Find someone attacked by monsters and defend them in gameplay.

MSQ: Oh no the villain is trying to get away > We stand there haplessly in a cutscene as the villain leaves, not even trying to stop them.
Role quest: Oh no the villain is trying to get away > Immediate transition from cutscene to gameplay, you are attacked by villain's goons as they make their escape, using gameplay to explain why the plot beat makes any logical sense.

I thought we were talking about the msq formula, not the quality of the writing. I might have misunderstood, in that case, my bad

what you said is not wrong, but that happens all the time. as soon as Wol enters a cutscene his/her brain gets paralyzed. I remember when I did HW MSQ, and when everyone just fucking watching Illberd summon the new primal. like he is standing right there, just try and do something! not an excuse to keep it happening of course.