You pull you tank question.

[Conando]

DPS pulling mobs away from the tank and dying wasn't part of the previous conversation, so it seems more like a deflection that a logical response to my post.

The start of the quote chain was asking Pictos to chill with their rotation because they are doing exactly what I said.

[BelegErkhten]

Ive been seeing significantly more of this since dt started-
Tank says nothing for 90% then gets mad on final pull because sm1 else pulled. Refuses to tank the mobs and even the boss.
Same story every time -

Where exactly do the GMs stand on this issue. Where exactly do the tos stand on this issue? And where do you the players stand on this issue.


Is it against tos?
If not should it be?
Are there exceptions where its okay to refuse to tank?

If a Mob is chasing you, just stop attacking it and run over to the tank, and they will naturally take aggro from it. This is not rocket science.
While its not hard to pick up trash in the initial engagement if you just mash ranged attacks, it IS VERY hard to do that if a Pictomancer decides to use the funny hammer attack to open or a Summoner decided to immediately summon Bahamut.
That said, none of this is going to be a problem after the patch tonight when Tank AoEs will generate more enmity.

[Lonely_Lily]

As it has been said, it's just about and will always be about communication (IG) and point of view (here).

For a bit of context, I play all the jobs but healers are my favorites followed by tanks.

When I started tanking or when I discovered new dungeons I remember seeing dps going crazy on pulling new packs or me being rescued from pack A to B without any words and thus, not even understanding what was happening.
Since then, even if I tank pretty well now, I think (point of view) that healers or dps going ahead and pulling adds without any prior notice (communication) are a pain to play with.

At the end it's all about respect. I respect my mates when I play, I try to go at their pace, whatever my job is. I wait for CS, I try to let some time for a newcomer to discover a dungeon when it's his first time, etc.
If you, as an other player, that can't wait 1 more minute in a whole dungeon cannot stand that, for me, you are a pain.
I usually do W2W, and if I can't because I'm not confident in my healers, in my dps, or at the dungeon specificities, I just warn everyone in the chat.
And if, despite all that, you start a fight during a CS, yep, I won't come until the CS is over so bear with it. If you pull and run like a chicken, yep, bear with it or come to me. And if the dungeon is a nightmare to deal with, I just quit because there is plenty of yellow quest that are waiting for me that I will enjoyway more..
It's not about ego or whatever, it's about what I think is respect (point of view). I can change my way of acting or playing if you communicate somehow with me (coomunication again) but otherwise, I'm totally fin to be the jerk of the one I call a jerk.

If Something is wrong, I try communication, if that doesn't work, I leave. It's for every job that I play, not just tank nor healers. There is no good answers, it's just my answer to that kind of situation.

[Merrigan]

YPYT is not acceptable at all.

Unmend, Shield Lob, Lightning Shot and Tomahawk exist, they all generate increased enmity and are ranged attacks.

But pulling, when the tank explicitly states they doesn't really want to go go at this pace, is ?

I don't understand this mentality.

[TBerry]

As it has been said, it's just about and will always be about communication (IG) and point of view (here).

For a bit of context, I play all the jobs but healers are my favorites followed by tanks.

When I started tanking or when I discovered new dungeons I remember seeing dps going crazy on pulling new packs or me being rescued from pack A to B without any words and thus, not even understanding what was happening.
Since then, even if I tank pretty well now, I think (point of view) that healers or dps going ahead and pulling adds without any prior notice (communication) are a pain to play with.

At the end it's all about respect. I respect my mates when I play, I try to go at their pace, whatever my job is. I wait for CS, I try to let some time for a newcomer to discover a dungeon when it's his first time, etc.
If you, as an other player, that can't wait 1 more minute in a whole dungeon cannot stand that, for me, you are a pain.
I usually do W2W, and if I can't because I'm not confident in my healers, in my dps, or at the dungeon specificities, I just warn everyone in the chat.
And if, despite all that, you start a fight during a CS, yep, I won't come until the CS is over so bear with it. If you pull and run like a chicken, yep, bear with it or come to me. And if the dungeon is a nightmare to deal with, I just quit because there is plenty of yellow quest that are waiting for me that I will enjoyway more..
It's not about ego or whatever, it's about what I think is respect (point of view). I can change my way of acting or playing if you communicate somehow with me (coomunication again) but otherwise, I'm totally fin to be the jerk of the one I call a jerk.

If Something is wrong, I try communication, if that doesn't work, I leave. It's for every job that I play, not just tank nor healers. There is no good answers, it's just my answer to that kind of situation.

That's how it works at least on Chaos.

[BigCheez]

The start of the quote chain was asking Pictos to chill with their rotation because they are doing exactly what I said.

And I'm explaining to you why DPS shouldn't "chill with their rotation".

If they're pulling aggro, throw your ranged attack/voke behind you while you're running between packs. Staying at the top of the enmity table for a tank isn't difficult in the current version of the game and you absolutely don't need people to sandbag their damage so that you can do so.

[Angelivia]

Whenever it comes to this topic, I am surprised how many are pointing fingers at the tank.

Your are so quick to quote the rules that the "you pull, you tank" mindset counts as "lethargic behavior" while, at the same time, you are so ready to ignore the fact that repeated and intentional non-tank-pulling is also reportable (if preceded communication failed, of course).

It is always the same "arguments".
1) uSe SpRiNt - Sprint is the ONLY tool a tank has to move faster. DPS - even healers now - often have more than one charges of dashing forward ADDITIONAL to Sprint, so it is impossible to outrun them.

Moreover, DPS pullers are wont to run ahead BEFORE the mob is killed down. With that damage now missing, it takes longer to finish it off. And even if the tank follows suit, the moment the mob gets dissolved from a bundle to a moving line, AOE's won't reach every enemy anymore, casts are uncomfortable to finish (if doable at all) and while it might FEEL faster, because you're on the move, in the end it isn't. So even apart from basic courtesy, it is no real gain whatsoever. Quite the contrary.

Plus, the "refined" way of using Sprint as a tank is to activate it JUST BEFORE reaching the following mob so it lasts not only 20 seconds but also long enough to make it to the next mob. Having to activate it earlier, just because one DPS did so, only results in Sprint wearing off ere the pull is completed, the tank taking avoidable damage and the healer spending resources that could have been saved up.

Why making this a race in the first place? It is unnecessarily stressful.

2) iT's So EaSy To TaKe BaCk AgGrO - This is beside the point. This isn't about how easy it is to regain enmity, it's about decency. Organisation. Every role has its part to play, so let them. A DPS hitting one enemy, they automatically get targeted by ALL other enemies. And yes, while it USUALLY takes only one strike for the tank to be main target again, due to the slow reaction time of mobs, they spread all over the room and the tank's AOE's don't have infinite radius. So it might take more than one hit.

Apart from that, the chaotic positioning only results in - again - everyone doing less damage and the whole encounter taking more time.

Furthermore, that every tank's ability to gain and to maintain enmity got easier over the time only shows that people never learned to behave the proper way, so the only solution in the end was to change the system, because players couldn't. If anything, that's a sad testament. Not a valid counter-argument.

3) There's a reason why tanks are setting the pace - maybe the healer is new/slower or the damage is lower and I have to use up all my cooldowns. The next pull isn't going to be wall to wall, then or I'm risking a wipe.

(1/2) Continues on second post due to length restrictions.

[Angelivia]

(2/2) Continuation of previous post.

That being said, we could save the most time by not arguing and not dying in the first place. And at the end of the day, a dungeon run is a group effort, so why not making it as chill and smooth as possible (and ultimately, even FASTER) instead of ruining anyone's experience?

Last but not least this discussion is nice and all but it would imply that every DPS had a special reason to pull, either to make it faster (which they don't) or because they're under the misconception of helping (which could easily be clarified by a short exchange). While that might be true in SOME cases, it's disregarding the sad truth that some just think it funny going on everyone's nerves and they know they can't be vote dismissed during combat, so they dash from mob to mob, from boss to boss because they seem to have no other joy in life.

As a tank, I personally abide by SE's rules, so I will still do my job even if I don't agree with DPS pullers and even if they don't listen to any pleas to stop. Still, I'm not very fond of the idea that I'm having to wait until after the encounter to file a report (I repeat, non-tank-pulling is also inappropriate and problematic for several reasons) and that one impatient idiot gets to decide how three other people are experiencing their dungeon/raid/roulette. This is extremely frustrating.

On another note, there's a whole healer strike going on because - among other reasons - they wish to feel more needed and they have many sympathizers. But a tank being shrugged off as a laughable role and only needed on paper to be able to queue into a dungeon, then gets treated however the rest of the party pleases and having to put up with it without being allowed to take any actions against it and GOD FORBID they're complaining is perfectly fine, yes?

I wonder why we have such a lack of people willing to play tank...

[angelar_]

Never have problems with DPS pulling ahead of me when I tank, ever. If you deal with this a lot, you're simply not minimizing the time you spend between pulls and standing around at the ends of fights. You might think you do, but you demonstrably aren't. Next pull when mobs are near last GCD. Sprint between pulls. Use Provoke to flag mobs in combat early (longest range tank ability) so that they only have you to look at on the enmity table.

Don't act surprised when you get vote kicked for willfully deciding not to perform your role, since posting on the forums isn't going to change that.

[TBerry]

They try to pressure the tank to adhere to their playstyle by threatening report.
99% of these accusations they make against tanks about ego and whatnot can be said about them as well.

That said, I'd like to thank these DPS personally, for letting other people join active duties.
Plus, you have 30 minutes more to be terminally online in Limsa, so ithere's an upside.