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  1. #201
    Player
    Malthir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    362
    Character
    Malthir Durnith
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by PaleYonder View Post
    Yeah, and ths degree of substantial negative feedback is a warning to the developers that at least parts of the customer base may not purchase the product anymore. A developer that wants to continue to sell should listen to that. This isn't one-sided entitlement; we want a good product for the money we spend or we won't spend the money anymore, and the developer wants our money. Who does it help if we just leave quietly instead of things being rescued and improved? Neither side.

    There's also the fact that FF14 has spread a whole lot via word of mouth, people recommending it to others who may have been hesitant (Isn't that too anime? Isn't there too much content to get through till endgame? And so on), and those who gave it a chance being won over by the story. How often do you hear that? You had to coax people past ARR sometimes, and sometimes past Stormblood. Now you have this.
    If someone is in it for the story, and dislike it so much this time around, can they seriously recommend the game anymore? In the past, I could say, "if you're not into the anime style or whatever, that's cool, but the story is really good", whereas now the most I could recommend to someone new is, expect to play till Endwalker, and then if you've got other stuff you enjoy, cool, but the story gets painful after that, and we don't know if this is just the way it's going to be now. So it may well be a finite experience.
    That's the worst word-of-mouth for a game that used to rely on its story so much.

    I also hardly think that this direction is some highly artistic choice that's essential to a writer's spirit as an auteur. It's all simply way too incompetent and unartistic for that. So they have no reason to keep going with this despite bleeding their customer base.
    It's actually worse than that, this level of dislike over the whole of the MSQ of an expac is a massive barrier to entry as the MSQ is mandatory. Try getting in new players when they know they will have to slog through something that's being called terrible by the people that loved the game.
    (32)

  2. #202
    Player
    PaleYonder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Posts
    112
    Character
    Lio Diateles
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthir View Post
    It's actually worse than that, this level of dislike over the whole of the MSQ of an expac is a massive barrier to entry as the MSQ is mandatory. Try getting in new players when they know they will have to slog through something that's being called terrible by the people that loved the game.
    That's a really good point, there's no skip right to endgame like in some games. So even the ones that don't care about the story and just want to raid etc have to do Dawntrail of all things.
    (12)

  3. #203
    Player
    chizLemons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    130
    Character
    Liz Ard
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthir View Post
    It's actually worse than that, this level of dislike over the whole of the MSQ of an expac is a massive barrier to entry as the MSQ is mandatory. Try getting in new players when they know they will have to slog through something that's being called terrible by the people that loved the game.
    Considering how Dawntrail is going, and that the biggest selling point of the game is still Shadowbringers + Endwalker, they can NEVER add ShB to the free trial. It's the only motivation to make new players pay for the game. And honestly, if things don't improve from how they are, even though I'd still recommend the game so they can go through ShB, I wouldn't waste my time convincing someone to stay for DT.
    (19)

  4. #204
    Player
    RabendaShin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2024
    Posts
    65
    Character
    Ori Lavande
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthir View Post
    It's actually worse than that, this level of dislike over the whole of the MSQ of an expac is a massive barrier to entry as the MSQ is mandatory. Try getting in new players when they know they will have to slog through something that's being called terrible by the people that loved the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by chizLemons View Post
    And honestly, if things don't improve from how they are, even though I'd still recommend the game so they can go through ShB, I wouldn't waste my time convincing someone to stay for DT.
    Here you have a game that has been recommended for the story, and the first thing you hear from fans is 'Yes, ARR is slow, but it's worth it! It gets better!'. They suffer through the slog, but it does get better despite ups and downs. It's worth it. Now imagine these players finally finishing Endwalker. They get to the post-MSQ quests, and make their way into the Dawntrail story. The sudden onset whiplash they would receive from the inexplicable drop in quality would be painful. They survived all the lows and enjoyed the highs, spent so many hours, and now they're back to being bored in what was advertised to be an exciting palate cleanser. I don't know how they would be able to trim Dawntrail's content down for future installments, but I won't be recommending this game without skipping Dawntrail until they do.
    (27)

  5. #205
    Player
    Basteala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Posts
    418
    Character
    Basteala Thayne
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sotaris View Post
    This. I haven't finished it yet but made it to
    cowboy place
    and while she havent' been my favorite character, the story been fine so far. I honestly don't understand all the push back unless something drastic happens next in the MSQ. My impression thus far is people came in with high expectations despite was told this is going to be a chill story.
    I think a lot of it is that a chill story with lower stakes is often something where the plot might take a backseat, and the experience is carried by interesting worldbuilding and character interactions. For a new beginning, this is a good thing and I think a lot of people wanted that.

    Only...the vast consensus is that the character interactions fell flat.

    It breaks my heart, too. Didn't the head writer of DT do the Black Mage Role Quests? Those were fantastic.
    (8)

  6. #206
    Player
    Daralii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,984
    Character
    Endris Caemwynn
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Basteala View Post
    I think a lot of it is that a chill story with lower stakes is often something where the plot might take a backseat, and the experience is carried by interesting worldbuilding and character interactions. For a new beginning, this is a good thing and I think a lot of people wanted that.

    Only...the vast consensus is that the character interactions fell flat.

    It breaks my heart, too. Didn't the head writer of DT do the Black Mage Role Quests? Those were fantastic.
    (2)

  7. #207
    Player
    Papayatar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    108
    Character
    Qiaomei Midas
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty View Post
    Honestly it's bordering on them needing to do the first proper MSQ overhaul patch since ARR content.

    I know it's impossible to rewrite the whole thing, but it would go a long way if they just slightly altered the scenes so WoL and the Scions aren't just hapless wallflowers.
    The easiest thing without really changing anything is change a good chunk of the quest where we talk to NPCs indirectly through Wuk Lamat. Like so many we could have just talked to the NPC ourselves but for whatever reason we had to talk to Wuk Lamat to cont. the quest so she could speak on our behalf or we talk to NPC but the cutscene shows Wuk Lamat talking to them while we twiddle our thumbs.

    Toss in changing some NPC dialogue, for example the Wandering Minstrel actually acknowledging us as the powerhouse in the trial and not Wuk Lamat.

    It wouldn’t fix all issues with the story but it would mitigate it feeling completely like we’re the Warrior of (Wuk) Lamat or like were tree #3 in Wuk Lamat’s school play.
    (14)
    Last edited by Papayatar; 07-16-2024 at 07:44 AM.

  8. #208
    Player
    Basteala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Posts
    418
    Character
    Basteala Thayne
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Daralii View Post
    Yeah that's my point. There's some legitimately good stuff there! And it makes me wonder what in the hell happened q.q
    (8)

  9. #209
    Player
    Voidmage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    692
    Character
    Hen'iel Jackel
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 47
    Quote Originally Posted by Papayatar View Post
    The easiest thing without really changing anything is change a good chunk of the quest where we talk to NPCs indirectly through Wuk Lamat. Like so many we could have just talked to the NPC ourselves but for whatever reason we had to talk to Wuk Lamat to cont. the quest so she could speak on our behalf or we talk to NPC but the cutscene shows Wuk Lamat talking to them while we twiddle our thumbs.

    Toss in changing some NPC dialogue, for example the Wandering Minstrel actually acknowledging us as the powerhouse in the trial and not Wuk Lamat.

    It wouldn’t fix all issues with the story but it would mitigate it feeling completely like we’re the Warrior of (Wuk) Lamat or like were tree #3 in Wuk Lamat’s school play.
    Yeah that’s basically my take as well.
    The scenes were we click on Wuk Lamat and she talks to Ereville or another character just starts talking.
    Y’shtola calling her instead of us via linkpearl.
    Her taking us out of our hotel room to do nothing basically.
    These are just a few of those instances.
    The one with the minstrel really pissed me of. It was such a punch in the face especially AFTER the story when I thought I finally reached the finish line.
    Even the Wild West scene was all about her (just make it so we find the bracelet and then learn it was hers, not like we needed a reason anyway or make it her dead husbands or something like that)

    They tried way too hard to force her in and I fear for the raids and patches.


    Quote Originally Posted by Basteala View Post
    Yeah that's my point. There's some legitimately good stuff there! And it makes me wonder what in the hell happened q.q
    To be honest, those are just really short stories not an entire expansion and even there you can see that another character takes center stage. Personally I found none of them really great in storytelling. Good? Sure but not great. Pandemonium was kinda a flat and predictable.
    What I don’t get is that in those stories the WoL is actually acknowledged and had a personality.
    (13)
    Last edited by Voidmage; 07-16-2024 at 03:14 PM.

  10. #210
    Player
    Hoi_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1
    Character
    Sean Benner
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 98
    I liked Stormblood, and i'm not liking Dawntrail lol.
    (18)

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