Lyse vs. Wuk Lamat

[Somnolence]

Except the critically acclaimed HW expansion wasn't all about us. It was about Aymeric and Ishgard.

And yet, in HW the antagonists we face were beyond Aymeric and Ishguard - Ascians, Primals (Remember post-Thordan "Who are you?" line from the elf pope?) and Great Wyrm himself.

In ShB its the same. Zenos couldn't care less about Lyse and Ala Mhigo resitance, only we can fight him and Shinryu.

WoL takes center stage as a hero in all expansions but DT where are the sidekick and primary credit goes to Wuk Lamat.

[Voidmage]

And yet, in HW the antagonists we face were beyond Aymeric and Ishguard - Ascians, Primals (Remember post-Thordan "Who are you?" line from the elf pope?) and Great Wyrm himself.

In ShB its the same. Zenos couldn't care less about Lyse and Ala Mhigo resitance, only we can fight him and Shinryu.

WoL takes center stage as a hero in all expansions but DT where are the sidekick and primary credit goes to Wuk Lamat.

This. We were equally important as those mentioned and in the big climax fights even the center of all.
Ishgard actually thanked us at the end They screamed "Ishgard remembers, WOL" for us not for Aymeric.
I can't remember Aymeric blocking my character in a cutscene.

in Stormblood it was also us who was remembered as the one who won the Azem Steppe battle. We gave the commando to attack the Garleans right after as far as I remember.

[Turtledeluxe]

If you take Wuk out of this expansion, it's still bad. Koana is a totally uninteresting character. Zoraal and Bakool are cliche. Pacing issues are everywhere. Quests are meandering and boring. Characters across the board endlessly repeat themselves like you're stupid. Themes pf parenthood are poorly explored and tell you nothing. Characters are surprised by things they really shouldn't be. I can go on forever.

Claiming Wuk Lamat ruins this expansion makes you objectively a hater. The devs ruined the expansion.

And the rants about it come across as unhinged.

Also Koana would make a terrible leader because he forfeited willingly.

[ZephyrMenodora]

If you take Wuk out of this expansion, it's still bad. Koana is a totally uninteresting character. Zoraal and Bakool are cliche. Pacing issues are everywhere. Quests are meandering and boring. Characters across the board endlessly repeat themselves like you're stupid. Themes pf parenthood are poorly explored and tell you nothing. Characters are surprised by things they really shouldn't be. I can go on forever.

Claiming Wuk Lamat ruins this expansion makes you objectively a hater. The devs ruined the expansion.

And the rants about it come across as unhinged.

Also Koana would make a terrible leader because he forfeited willingly.

It's almost as though a badly written and acted character that we have to interact with most of the MSQ, who has the most dialogue, who we constantly talk about the few times she's not there, can completely ruin someone's experience.

She absolutely through her writing and acting ruin this expansion for MSQ enjoyers.

Calling people unhinged because the omnipresence of a bad character ruined their enjoyment of this MSQ, is unhinged.

[Isala]

If you take Wuk out of this expansion, it's still bad. Koana is a totally uninteresting character. Zoraal and Bakool are cliche. Pacing issues are everywhere. Quests are meandering and boring. Characters across the board endlessly repeat themselves like you're stupid. Themes pf parenthood are poorly explored and tell you nothing. Characters are surprised by things they really shouldn't be. I can go on forever.

Claiming Wuk Lamat ruins this expansion makes you objectively a hater. The devs ruined the expansion.

And the rants about it come across as unhinged.

Also Koana would make a terrible leader because he forfeited willingly.

You're missing the point. The reason all of those themes are unexplored, is because taking time to focus on any of them would give Wuk Lamat less time in the spotlight. We were having a conversation with her father about his fears as a leader and a dad. She interrupts. Koana is getting interesting character development while she's captured. We free her, and she interrupts. Koana gets a chance to stand on his own, and fight his father's shade... Well, now he has to forfeit, because we can't have him be an obstacle for Wuk Lamat. She's literally a black hole. Anyone that gets close to her gets all of their character development sucked out of them, just so they can be the background character in the story that is Wuk Lamat.

[Turtledeluxe]

You're missing the point. The reason all of those themes are unexplored, is because taking time to focus on any of them would give Wuk Lamat less time in the spotlight. We were having a conversation with her father about his fears as a leader and a dad. She interrupts. Koana is getting interesting character development while she's captured. We free her, and she interrupts. Koana gets a chance to stand on his own, and fight his father's shade... Well, now he has to forfeit, because we can't have him be an obstacle for Wuk Lamat. She's literally a black hole. Anyone that gets close to her gets all of their character development sucked out of them, just so they can be the background character in the story that is Wuk Lamat.

Oh really? Erenville and his mom's arc is mishandled because Wuk Lamat? Wuk barely has dialogue or input the entire LM map. I almost forgot she was there. Is it Wuk Lamat's fault that Krile's parenthood arc is laughably mishandled to the point of being a little offensive? Wuk Lamat herself has a parenthood story but it also doesn't really say anything and doesn't seem cohesive. It's just emotional for the sake of being emotional. It's Wuk Lamat's fault we get like one conversation with Gulool Ja? How? Wuk Lamat is not preventing other characters from interacting. Zoraal Ja and Koana both have extensive scenes to themselves. There's just not much of an interesting story going on and certainly no one wanted to explore parenthood beyond the absolute superficial.

What you are actually saying is the writers paced the story badly. Wuk Lamat is not forcing anyone to do anything and not forcing the camera around.

[Isala]

Oh really? Erenville and his mom's arc is mishandled because Wuk Lamat? Wuk barely has dialogue or input the entire LM map. I almost forgot she was there. Is it Wuk Lamat's fault that Krile's parenthood arc is laughably mishandled to the point of being a little offensive? Wuk Lamat herself has a parenthood story but it also doesn't really say anything and doesn't seem cohesive. It's just emotional for the sake of being emotional. It's Wuk Lamat's fault we get like one conversation with Gulool Ja?

You were so close to getting it. Literally anything that doesn't revolve around Wuk Lamat herself was halfassed. Of course we don't go into her parenthood story. That involves someone else, and isn't showing us how COOL and AWESOME Wuk Lamat is. Giving her an actual backstory? Nope. We don't do that with self inserts. That takes away time from them being the most important character ever, and we can't do that by showing them as a kid.

[Turtledeluxe]

You were so close to getting it. Literally anything that doesn't revolve around Wuk Lamat herself was halfassed. Of course we don't go into her parenthood story. That involves someone else, and isn't showing us how COOL and AWESOME Wuk Lamat is. Giving her an actual backstory? Nope. We don't do that with self inserts. That takes away time from them being the most important character ever, and we can't do that by showing them as a kid.

You already got it. Anything not involving her is indeed half assed, by choice of the writers. Wuk Lamat's character actions are not what make LM undercooked. They're not what make the beast tribes flat and boring. My point is that outside combat, the expansion is pretty average whether you remove Wuk or anyone from the story.

I remembered Yoshi said he wanted to be able to tell the story faster because 10 years to finish an arc is too long, and we definitely felt that in EW with how abdrupt and fast Zodiac was resolved. It's the samething in DT where it feels the first and second half are 2 separated stories got mashed into one. So it's actually amazing that they managed to make a "compressed" story feel dragged instead of rushed. It's because instead of using their limited time to expand and say new interesting things, the characters prefer to use their screen time to recited the same line for the upteenth time over.

Indeed. I just don't understand. Is it a creative decision, a budgetary constraint, an accessibility feature? It's baffling to me that someone played through that MSQ and said it was great. If i have to talk to 3 more villagers or follow someone around one more time, I may just watch the story on YouTube.

[Raven2014]

Characters across the board endlessly repeat themselves like you're stupid.

I remembered Yoshi said he wanted to be able to tell the story faster because 10 years to finish an arc is too long, and we definitely felt that in EW with how abdrupt and fast Zodiac was resolved. It's the samething in DT where it feels the first and second half are 2 separated stories got mashed into one. So it's actually amazing that they managed to make a "compressed" story feel dragged instead of rushed. It's because instead of using their limited time to expand and say new interesting things, the characters prefer to use their screen time to recited the same line for the upteenth time over.

[ClayyLmao]

And yet, in HW the antagonists we face were beyond Aymeric and Ishguard - Ascians, Primals (Remember post-Thordan "Who are you?" line from the elf pope?) and Great Wyrm himself.

In ShB its the same. Zenos couldn't care less about Lyse and Ala Mhigo resitance, only we can fight him and Shinryu.

WoL takes center stage as a hero in all expansions but DT where are the sidekick and primary credit goes to Wuk Lamat.

We could've had this in DT too. Sphene teleports everyone else away and it's up to us to beat her, because at the end of the day, while other people can take the spotlight, we're supposed to be the protectors of the world. But no, Wuk has to inexplicably find a way to fly through cyberspace, break through Sphenes barrier and then do exponentially more damage than us in a fraction of the time. The ending could've been so much better if Wuk showed up in the cutscene after the fight to talk to a defeated Sphenebot instead of literally standing on a platform between us and the boss, literally at the front and center.