Unpopular Opnion: Dawntrail MSQ one of the best yet! [Spoilers]

[adamisapsycho]

You keep conflating two different things, people being mixed about liking something is not the same as something being objectively bad. Yes you can be objective in art critique, I've used this example in a similar argument. If you're judging a dancing contests, not liking the dance style they chose for this piece. Is somewhat subjective opinion. Saying they were late on the first turn is objective critique, the pirouette was poorly executed they didn't keep her knee at the right height their other leg was slightly bent, the parallels were off etc That's objective, it's a formal critique of the technical performance. That's what's being discussed. Now many people don't like is because the writing is bad, and some people like it despite the writing being bad, but it's inarguable that the writing standard in the MSQ is bad. With many many examples highlight the telling not showing, no character journey, heel turns with no build up or reasonable payoff etc etc.

So that's a no then, got it.

[Striker44]

You keep conflating two different things, people being mixed about liking something is not the same as something being objectively bad. Yes you can be objective in art critique, I've used this example in a similar argument. If you're judging a dancing contests, not liking the dance style they chose for this piece. Is somewhat subjective opinion. Saying they were late on the first turn is objective critique, the pirouette was poorly executed they didn't keep her knee at the right height their other leg was slightly bent, the parallels were off etc That's objective, it's a formal critique of the technical performance. That's what's being discussed. Now many people don't like is because the writing is bad, and some people like it despite the writing being bad, but it's inarguable that the writing standard in the MSQ is bad. With many many examples highlight the telling not showing, no character journey, heel turns with no build up or reasonable payoff etc etc.

I'm trying to figure out if this is one of those things that's just difficult to pick up tone when reading text, but was this sarcasm or did you just spend half of a post clearly distinguishing subjective vs. objective, and then end the post by completely ignoring it? Saying the writing is "bad" (or "good" for that matter) is a subjective opinion trying to masquerade as objective fact, plain and simple. And if you want to talk about something like character journey, then you can objectively point to numerous examples of how Wuk Lumat grows and matures as a leader over the course of the MSQ as an example.

[AnotherHighlander]

I'm trying to figure out if this is one of those things that's just difficult to pick up tone when reading text, but was this sarcasm or did you just spend half of a post clearly distinguishing subjective vs. objective, and then end the post by completely ignoring it? Saying the writing is "bad" (or "good" for that matter) is a subjective opinion trying to masquerade as objective fact, plain and simple. And if you want to talk about something like character journey, then you can objectively point to numerous examples of how Wuk Lumat grows and matures as a leader over the course of the MSQ as an example.

Striker44 would unironically be a more interesting character than 99% of the characters in FF14.

[JustinSolstice]

Please tell me this is satire.

"Your opinion differs with mine so it must be satire!

[JustinSolstice]

You keep conflating two different things, people being mixed about liking something is not the same as something being objectively bad. Yes you can be objective in art critique, I've used this example in a similar argument. If you're judging a dancing contests, not liking the dance style they chose for this piece. Is somewhat subjective opinion. Saying they were late on the first turn is objective critique, the pirouette was poorly executed they didn't keep her knee at the right height their other leg was slightly bent, the parallels were off etc That's objective, it's a formal critique of the technical performance. That's what's being discussed. Now many people don't like is because the writing is bad, and some people like it despite the writing being bad, but it's inarguable that the writing standard in the MSQ is bad. With many many examples highlight the telling not showing, no character journey, heel turns with no build up or reasonable payoff etc etc.

In your last reply you said "cope harder" as if someone liking the story is considered coping, its not unreasonable for her to think that you were trying to state your opinion like it was a fact when the opposing opinion is somehow "wrong"

[Racen]

I very much enjoyed the expansion. I feel like some of the people who are mad about the abundance of our sweet smol fuzzball haven't understood that the MSQ is about her, she is the main character. We are a Shonen-esque mentor sidekick person and that's perfectly fine. We don't always have to be front and center. First couple zones were a bit slow I don't disagree but I still found things I enjoyed. Wuk Evu is great but I was less interested in the Pelu Pelu

[Racen]

Wuk is a bad character not because I hate the character. It's because she has no growth or journey. You'll find that most people would like the character if she grew over time or at least experienced an emotional journey (as in sometimes the things you go through don't change you or change you back to being how you used to be) What's important is the journey progressing through mental/emotional states. Personally I would still undoubtable dislike her, mainly because I find loud cheery characters obnoxious. Regardless, she at least then wouldn't be a badly written loud cheery character.

I don't like haurchefant, he wasn't badly written, I just didn't like the character. Are you seeing the point yet?

I mean first of all this is factually incorrect. She has a lot of both physical and emotional growth, and also goes through a journey. When we first meet her she is a tough talker, but tbh she's kind of a wuss who doesn't believe in herself. We see this in the Aetherfont solo duty we do with her. She holds her own but clearly is not as confident as we and Graha. As you journey with her through Tural though her confidence grows, especially after defeating Valigarmanda, but she still doesn't believe in herself enough to realize that despite Zoraal and Koana being better at certain things than her, that doesn't mean they're head and shoulders above her in every way. Throughout the story she does finally understand this, but also understands where her shortcomings might be as a ruler, so she brings on Koana. As far as emotional growth.. I mean she starts out very naive and thinking she knows how the world works and how her people work, which is quickly proven to be not the case. She learns though, as we traverse through the different areas, and especially when we meet Sphene who she sees as a kindred spirit, someone who cares as much as she does about the happiness and life of her people. She tried to do everything she could to get through to the last traces of the real Sphene (that do exist in her system) but by the end of the 100 trial she obviously understands that there is no world in which Sphene can be saved. It wasn't perfect, there was some poor literary decisions made along the way from time to time but you do definitely see WL go from someone who definitely isn't ready to be the leader of Tural to after the 100 trial she understands the burden of leadership and making difficult choices.

[Dogempire]

I very much enjoyed the expansion. I feel like some of the people who are mad about the abundance of our sweet smol fuzzball haven't understood that the MSQ is about her, she is the main character. We are a Shonen-esque mentor sidekick person and that's perfectly fine. We don't always have to be front and center. First couple zones were a bit slow I don't disagree but I still found things I enjoyed. Wuk Evu is great but I was less interested in the Pelu Pelu

I don't think people would mind being a mentor... if the MSQ didn't absolutely fail at making us a mentor. Instead we're just a glorified prop with gameplay breaks to stop us from getting bored.

Let me ask you this: Did we ever teach Wuk Lamat a single thing? And I mean actually teach her, not she learns the lesson from other people or through her experiences with us standing around nearby, I mean through us actually interacting with her or us giving her advice she learns something new.

Because the closest I can think of is us being all "Yeah, kick his butt" during the Bakool Ja Ja fight, which, whoop-dee-doo, we lose the chance to beat the crap out of him directly and have to do so with Wuk Lamat's janky skills.

Well, that and the "You have Galool Ja Ja's love for peace" dialogue option, as if Wuk Lamat doesn't keep saying she loves peace like Naruto says he wants to become Hokage and we're just here to parrot back to her what she's been parroting the entire time

[hydralus]

Imagine if they redid Shadowbringers and instead of each Scion getting their own zone and character growth, they all just follow the crystal Exarch and only talk when it has something to do with him. Then in the final trial he jumps out of the shadows and solo-tanks Hades. Why did he bother bringing the scions? Someone has to watch him be awesome.

[Coratanni]

Been playing FF since 1987, and FFXIV since 2015. This is the first game(Dawntrail), where I've started skipping cutscenes because I was so unbelievably sick and tired of one character. It's almost embarrassing that this is the story we got. Estinien got the adventure I thought we would have. We weren't even a mentor. We were more of a babysitter/cheerleader for the great Wuk Lamat who could do no wrong while everyone talked about how amazing and great she was. It made me physically ill. Throw in a horrible VA performance on the English side with no emotion or range, it's just bad.

The dungeons have been a lot of fun, I love the layout of the new areas, but god that MSQ was BAD. Catered towards children frankly.