When are we as player going to demand from SE a better MSQ experience

[KisaiTenshi]

When you spend 4-5 hours doing MSQ and haven't killed a single mob, that's boring.

While that is true, there are visual novels and indie RPG's that do this and they're fine.

The problem in a ~MMO~ is that there is a "least common denominator" at play. So you can't make a "smart" story that requires the player to understand 10 years of lore. So a "clean break" from the 1.0-6.0 story would be welcome to bringing new players to the game, but then you get into the kind of problem half the other MMORPG's have, where the expansions are islands ("theme parks") and have no meaning outside their expansion. This is why like certain expansions in WoW (I know nothing of WoW, I just know people gripe over WoW having no understandable story expansion to expansion) are apparently very detached from the gameplay.

Final Fantasy however has a specific "brand" and in a way that hobbles it from being able to make drastic storytelling changes. We can't have "Disc 1 Aerith" happen every expansion, yet we've had one with 2.x, 3.x, and 4.x. Like when you start pulling the same thing, it becomes expected and doesn't feel like anything you do actually affects the story. The only way an NPC lives is by not completing the story.

[Aluja89]

I've been saying this for years, a good story is a bonus and it definitely shouldn't supersede the gameplay. But if story is that important to you then there are better genres for that itch.

They seriously need to add something to the zones so we can do ANYTHING else while doing the MSQ, like a open dungeon or exploration quest for a hidden boss. Something that reminds everyone that we are in fact playing an MMO and not a VN.

[Raikai]

The story itself does have writing problems, but I highly agree with the OP - the main culprit for me to dislike the MSQ was the actual technical execution of the quests. I'll highlight the issues and what I think it could've been:

1) Fetch quests are fine, however most of the things we're asked to fetch are just mundane items that really won't add much to the plot, and this happens constantly. To me the most egregious example is when Otis cooks for the party: after a few search quests (which already ticks the 'boring checkbox'), the game asks for us to fetch meat, and then other cooking items that add absolutely nothing to the overall scene. We don't learn anything new from those, we already know the marvels of electrope. If Otis already had all of that it wouldn't have changed anything.

2) The 'kill quests' are an insult to our capacity of playing a combat job. I hate comparing XIV to WoW (which I don't play anymore), but that game knows how to make good kill quests. You often can choose what to kill: more small weaker enemies or less bigger and more dangerous ones. You could exploit different classes for their capacities to see which is the most efficient way to complete them - are you a Warlock running and putting DoT's everywhere while trying to stay alive, or are you a self-sustainable tank that chooses to kill bigger foes more slowly? Here in XIV we have a 'pseudo-instanced' occurance of an enemy spawning in the purple danger zones that will die within 2-3 gcds.

In fact, you wouldn't even need to look outside for a good example - FATEs are basically kill quests better designed and with an actual sense of danger let you be overwhelmed. Couldn't they incorporate that tech into the common quests?

3) "Let's split and talk to the locals." - This is absolute garbage and to me the worst example of how to poorly handle a narrative. Not only this happens all the time, but you barely learn anything really usable. They could cut 80% of those quests without any damage to the outcome.

4) Lack of minigames where minigames are due. 4/7 of the trials do not involve combat, and what we get is a bland fetching + talk to locals combination of things.
- The Hanuhanu minigame could use that same tech from one of the Starlight choir minigame - hitting buttons to dictate the quality of the parade's performance.
- The Moblin minigame could involve choosing and equipping the elezen artisan NPC through a series of combinations, similar to how in FF7 you get different quality outcomes of the "Cloud in a Dress" scene based on what you did.
- The Pelupelu quests are on the right track, but it should actually challenge the player with the agency of calculation and different trading options.
- The Xbr'aal cooking quests defnitely would require a minigame where you control Wuk Lamat (to avoid conflict with a potential WoL CUL) to cook the dish. The elector even says that you could try again until you make it, yet this is never really used.

5) We spend a lot of time split in teams of 2 or 3 people, yet the "escort mechanic" is only used when there's just plain chatting or sightseeing. If the 'kill' quests were more interesting, the escorted NPC could help us with combat.

6) Too many 'custcenes' for mundane things. Honestly, when those happen I highly expect something really neat and important being discussed and yet many are just a slog that could've been plain over-world dialogue.

7) The "stealth" quests can die in a fire. In theory, the idea sounds neat, but the actual execution is too monotonous, boring and don't resemble stealthing at all.

Overall, I think DT's story would be much better received as it is if we actually enjoyed the technical aspect of the journey.

[Priddy]

Even as someone who liked Dawntrail's MSQ, I agree with the OP of this thread.

MSQ gameplay has improved over the years, with more voiced cutscenes, more solo duties, and new quest design elements (first person segments, escort quests, stealth quests, memory challenges, etc) but it really is not enough.

We need effectively triple the solo duties, double the voiced cutscenes (and trials/raids with dialogue ALL need to be voiced, it's ridiculous that they're not tbh, these are supposed to be climactic moments), and a few more questing variances like they introduced in EW for MSQ gameplay to be at an acceptable level.

And part of this work needs to be retrofitted to existing MSQ content, ARR ESPECIALLY to help break down that massive new player filter.

I understand there is a cost associated with these requests, but this really needs to be a priority. If it's truly not cost-possible while maintaining current content standards elsewhere, then resources need to be divested from other parts of the game to make this happen. The real question is, would players really accept a better MSQ experience if it means only one ultimate per expansion? Or maybe only 5 zones per expansion? Or a longer release cycle?

To be honest, I kinda doubt it.

[KornKob]

And part of this work needs to be retrofitted to existing MSQ content, ARR ESPECIALLY to help break down that massive new player filter.

I understand there is a cost associated with these requests, but this really needs to be a priority. If it's truly not cost-possible while maintaining current content standards elsewhere, then resources need to be divested from other parts of the game to make this happen. The real question is, would players really accept a better MSQ experience if it means only one ultimate per expansion? Or maybe only 5 zones per expansion? Or a longer release cycle?

To be honest, I kinda doubt it.

I personally would be very much in support of some more time being spent to uplift the early game MSQ experience. As well as time to include more instanced (combat or otherwise) content in newer MSQ... It's one of the only real complaints I have with current content, and has 100% been a thorn in the side of friends who I have tried to introduce the game to. Now that SE is making more use of modern hardware (as indicated by the graphics overhaul), I think it would behoove them to really dig in and rework older content and introduce some new templates for instanced quests so we don't feel as though we are simply reading a visual novel.

I LOVE FFXIV and pretty much everything the game has had to offer me over the years, but I really want to see these aspects improve the most.

No matter what, we will always get folks who would complain if the dev team took extra time to address pain points, but it'd be worth it in the long haul. Especially considering that they will need to do something in the coming years if they hope to maintain their seat as one of the top MMOs as tech only gets better, and the gameplay experiences other titles may offer will get more difficult to compete with.

[Valkret]

And part of this work needs to be retrofitted to existing MSQ content, ARR ESPECIALLY to help break down that massive new player filter.

I understand there is a cost associated with these requests, but this really needs to be a priority. If it's truly not cost-possible while maintaining current content standards elsewhere, then resources need to be divested from other parts of the game to make this happen. The real question is, would players really accept a better MSQ experience if it means only one ultimate per expansion? Or maybe only 5 zones per expansion? Or a longer release cycle?

To be honest, I kinda doubt it.

100% agree with this. This is probably one of the main barriers that stops most people from continuing to play the game. A lot of new players, especially people that are new to Final Fantasy, are not going to sit through hundreds of hours of cutscenes and walls of text. And is not a problem only to ARR. As good as HW story is the gameplay in the MSQ is lacking. I hear FFXIV players tell new players that "it gets better after you reach HW". Does it really get better? I mean the story does but the MSQ gameplay remains the same.

After Shadowrbringers it got a little better, but I think that was mainly because they introduced the bicolor gemstones to fates and it kind of broke the monotony a little bit. Regardless, I don't think they will ever spend resources on overhauling the MSQ from previous expansions, but on ARR since is technically the new player experience they definitely should.

And I don't think we should sacrifice current content so they can work on ARR. The player count has grown significantly and so has their revenue, so they should be able to manage both. Besides is not a pressing need to it can be done slowly over the course of the next couple of years.

[Slayer25c]

100% agree with this. This is probably one of the main barriers that stops most people from continuing to play the game. A lot of new players, especially people that are new to Final Fantasy, are not going to sit through hundreds of hours of cutscenes and walls of text. And is not a problem only to ARR. As good as HW story is the gameplay in the MSQ is lacking. I hear FFXIV players tell new players that "it gets better after you reach HW". Does it really get better? I mean the story does but the MSQ gameplay remains the same.

After Shadowrbringers it got a little better, but I think that was mainly because they introduced the bicolor gemstones to fates and it kind of broke the monotony a little bit. Regardless, I don't think they will ever spend resources on overhauling the MSQ from previous expansions, but on ARR since is technically the new player experience they definitely should.

And I don't think we should sacrifice current content so they can work on ARR. The player count has grown significantly and so has their revenue, so they should be able to manage both. Besides is not a pressing need to it can be done slowly over the course of the next couple of years.

You playing ff for the story that what ff is known for it story I understand arr is boring but u should know what u getting yourself into before u play this game it has alot cs and writing that is for every jrpg out there.

[BakoolJaJa]

You playing ff for the story that what ff is known for it story I understand arr is boring but u should know what u getting yourself into before u play this game it has alot cs and writing that is for every jrpg out there.

Nonsense. FF is not known for being some sort of visual novel series. FF games have a focus on story, yes, but the question is how said story is presented. And it's disingenuous to claim that other FF games lack gameplay. We went from turn based combat focused games with party management to mixed combat systems, to action combat focus, to something like FF7 Rebirth that is more minigame than story. FFXIV is really the odd one out in how 90% of the game is clicking through meaningless, repetitive dialogue and waiting out cutscenes that have 10 NPCs slowly nodding one by one and then slowly walking off the scene... one by one. Sorry, but no other FF game does anything like this.

The only one that maybe got closeish is ironically FF16. Because despite the flashy action combat, CBU3 still has some sort of issues figuring out how to put any real substance behind the cool stuff. So you yawn your way through all the glowy screen explosions and have to manage anger issues when the game constantly kills bosses for you once they reach 25% hp, because everything good must be a cutscene or something? But even ignoring FF16 issues (that I personally had, subjective and all, I'm not here to attack anyone's favorite game), at least there the combat still makes up more than 4% of the entire game.

Whereas FF14 sometimes feels like they are trying to copy the worst games gacha market has to offer. Yapfest on top of yapfest, constant repetition of what was said a minute ago, stupidly lengthy explanations of the most simplistic of concepts, etc. We could only dream of CBU3 taking a look at other FF games and copying some gameplay from them.

[Bellybell]

as many time as threads like this coming up, i always wonder what is it you think they can do about?

no read no yap to npc
no boring fetch (and what is interesting one?)
killing random critters is an insult(you expecting 20 trials right on a new patch or something?)

[Khutulun]

FF14 needs more kinds of quests and gimmicks. Shutting down any complaints will accomplish little- FF14 isn't a traditional RPG and can't expect to skirt by with a pure storytelling MSQ format... it's a MMO that thrives via attracting as many customers as possible.

Bumping up the number of instanced MSQ battles will help a tad.

...But otherwise more gimmicks to involve ourselves with. If the dev team are sly about it they'll invest in enjoyable little sideshows that can be re-used in Golden Saucer, Alliance (Tribe) quests, or other optional parts of the game. Regardless of what specifically is done, it does seem like staying the course won't benefit FF14 in the long term.

Oh... also rework those stealth quests a bit. They're... certainly a type of quest. Not a bad idea, but certainly lacking in the flavor department. Needs more interaction beyond identifying the next rock to sit behind for 30 seconds. Prob a duty action styled stealth mechanic or just additional entities to snake around as part of your objective. Shame really that the stealth mechanic is such a miss... especially when EW had quite the fun little instanced stealth section.