dead jobs

[ForteNightshade]

If it makes you feel better, I just watched a video where Ast was at the top of the rDPS parses, so people do seem to be playing it. Anything that is the top performer will get play time. So, definitely not dead to me.

Not liking the rework is another issue to me.

Astro is in a very weird state. It's by far the strongest healer and noticeably easier to play than any previous iteration. Unfortunately, it's also incredibly boring. I suspect a big issue is the card changes feel completely pointless. Our kits are practically exploding with defensive utility and healing. The last thing we needed was more of the same thing on a two minute CD. This alone has driven a sizable portion of the skilled players away because why bother putting in the work to play Astro when White Mage is still boring but hey, both easier and at least has Misery. Likewise, the stigma surrounding Astro has likely prevented it from getting any sort of traction amongst more casual players.

You'll definitely see it come Savage because it parses well but it's quite telling how poorly the rework has been received when it's trailing third place (Scholar) in EX logs by 16,000.

[Xieldras]

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I still don't understand why the devs seem so insistent on absolutely having a middle point between high DPS (MCH) and support (DNC), forcing it on BRD, save for easy balancing. They have their metrics and I'm pretty sure it's not looking good when it comes to this class, especially seeing as the new PCT has a wide-array of support available while still dealing an amazing amount of damage, thus being an attractive option for whatever amount of players that still shoot arrows.

I think what Bard needs right now isn't "moar damage" like they've done for 3 expansions now, it's actually exclusive buffs: Foe's Requiem, Refresh, Palissade (and I know that Squadron Bards still have those last 2 so the code is absolutely in the game and ready for implementation). Stuff that other classes do not have at their disposal.

There are also ways to have 2 different types of Supports in the rDPS role, since buff options are far and wide. Heck, Foe's was a debuff so that adds even more possibilities (and it's not like the forums haven't suggested hundreds of pages worth of buffs/debuffs/classes as ideas).

People have said before that I should be happy that Bard is getting more damage.
I never wanted more damage, I just wanted to support my party in a meaningful manner without playing Healer. To say I should be happy I get to do more DPS while my support kit is crippled is ignoring the reason people enjoyed this class. If I wanted more damage, I'd play one of those that do a better job at that than Bard, like Machinist.

[Local_Custard]

I still don't understand why the devs seem so insistent on absolutely having a middle point between high DPS (MCH) and support (DNC), forcing it on BRD, save for easy balancing. They have their metrics and I'm pretty sure it's not looking good when it comes to this class, especially seeing as the new PCT has a wide-array of support available while still dealing an amazing amount of damage, thus being an attractive option for whatever amount of players that still shoot arrows.

I think what Bard needs right now isn't "moar damage" like they've done for 3 expansions now, it's actually exclusive buffs: Foe's Requiem, Refresh, Palissade (and I know that Squadron Bards still have those last 2 so the code is absolutely in the game and ready for implementation). Stuff that other classes do not have at their disposal.

There are also ways to have 2 different types of Supports in the rDPS role, since buff options are far and wide. Heck, Foe's was a debuff so that adds even more possibilities (and it's not like the forums haven't suggested hundreds of pages worth of buffs/debuffs/classes as ideas).

People have said before that I should be happy that Bard is getting more damage.
I never wanted more damage, I just wanted to support my party in a meaningful manner without playing Healer. To say I should be happy I get to do more DPS while my support kit is crippled is ignoring the reason people enjoyed this class. If I wanted more damage, I'd play one of those that do a better job at that than Bard, like Machinist.

I've been reading the replies about bard and finding once again, I am playing the game at a low point. I have picked up bard because I like the support but I do agree: it all feels passive. I like party inter-play. It makes me sad I can't even have that.

[Daralii]

Astro is in a very weird state. It's by far the strongest healer and noticeably easier to play than any previous iteration. Unfortunately, it's also incredibly boring. I suspect a big issue is the card changes feel completely pointless. Our kits are practically exploding with defensive utility and healing. The last thing we needed was more of the same thing on a two minute CD. This alone has driven a sizable portion of the skilled players away because why bother putting in the work to play Astro when White Mage is still boring but hey, both easier and at least has Misery. Likewise, the stigma surrounding Astro has likely prevented it from getting any sort of traction amongst more casual players.

You'll definitely see it come Savage because it parses well but it's quite telling how poorly the rework has been received when it's trailing third place (Scholar) in EX logs by 16,000.

It has the same problems as Monk where it seems much more complicated than it is and it won't stop getting reworked(I think this was card rework 3 or 4), but with the added issue of a lot of its tooltips being huge and confusing. On an unrelated note, I can't believe they've reworked cards so many times and Lady of Crowns is still so terrible.

[Xieldras]

I've been reading the replies about bard and finding once again, I am playing the game at a low point. I have picked up bard because I like the support but I do agree: it all feels passive. I like party inter-play. It makes me sad I can't even have that.

They removed a lot of inter-party play within the DPS combat system because of balancing issues as far as I remember. A Dragoon and Bard were almost a necessary combo back in Stormblood because of how powerful it was due to the piercing debuff. But nowadays it's like I'm just playing a single-player game alongside others, and giving out some small buffs during my rotation or shooting out a Troubadour before a raid-wide (which is always the first cast of a boss. Always). I don't really interact with other players except when the Healers have to shovel my corpse off the ground.

[Local_Custard]

They removed a lot of inter-party play within the DPS combat system because of balancing issues as far as I remember. A Dragoon and Bard were almost a necessary combo back in Stormblood because of how powerful it was due to the piercing debuff. But nowadays it's like I'm just playing a single-player game alongside others, and giving out some small buffs during my rotation or shooting out a Troubadour before a raid-wide (which is always the first cast of a boss. Always). I don't really interact with other players except when the Healers have to shovel my corpse off the ground.

Any job interplay being added is generally a welcome change for me tbh. Now, how well it would have been implemented if they added new interplay is another matter entirely...
I do sometimes interact with other players. It's pleasant to have conversations with people. Though, it can be difficult to interact because a lot of people are generally silent/don't respond even when making an important request (such as asking the tank to wipe when they are the last last one alive for any number of reasons and the boss is at 70% or something) (asking the party to pick up adds) (telling the healer to wait with ressing me because the boss is almost dead)

[Colt47]

Monk still shows up sometimes despite being in a state that no one can ever figure out what the plan is with them. The rarest jobs are probably Ninja and Astro even with the rework to Astro. Ninja is just hard to remember how things work if someone steps away for a good long while, and it has some rather interesting burst windows that get hit hard by drift. It's the same kind of thing Gunbreaker was having except even worse than gunbreaker.

To be frank there's always going to be some jobs that just do not get played much because of being more complicated or just requiring more effort than other comparable jobs to do the same thing, and with the number of jobs increasing every expansion the trend will likely get worse.

[HyoMinPark]

Any job interplay being added is generally a welcome change for me tbh. Now, how well it would have been implemented if they added new interplay is another matter entirely...)

The only issue with piercing is that only DRG offered it, and both BRD and MCH benefited from it (+10% flat damage over the entirety of a fight in HW, nerfed to +5% in SB). This reliance caused issues for MNK at the higher ends of play back in HW because neither BRD nor MCH wanted to take a 10% damage penalty for having a MNK in the party. BRD and MCH were also both incredibly strong by the time Creator released; strong enough to completely oust the casters from parties. (NIN was also solidified in the second melee spot because of Trick Attack and its old utilities of Shadewalker and Smokescreen, which allowed tanks to remain in their DPS stances—also Goad, the TP Regen, was NIN only).

Now, this could have been fixed with MCH dealing blunt damage, which MNK had the blunt resistance down debuff on their Dragon Kick combo. BRD offered interactivity with casters since Foe Requiem was 10% magic resistance down back then. But unfortunately MCH was piercing—and unfortunately, only DRG offered that. When it came to other resistance down debuffs (Slashing and Blunt), either multiple jobs offered it (Slashing was offered by WAR and NIN in HW, and also by SAM when it came out in SB); or there was only one job that had that interactivity and also applied the resistance down itself, so there was no reliance on another job (MNK and Blunt).

I’d argue the DRG/BRD reliance was even stronger in SB due to both piercing (even with it now being 5%) and Battle Litany being a critical hit % up buff. BRD’s Repertoire mechanic in SB scaled off of crit, so having both a DRG and a SCH for Litany and Chain Strategem were definitely a high desire for any good BRD because of that interactivity.

I have nothing again interactivity between jobs. To be honest, I liked that aspect of SB BRD (specifically the crit interactions because of the DoT and Iron Jaws optimization it offered). But I cannot deny it really sucked to be a BRD in a static with a NIN/SAM melee comp, and a WHM/AST healer comp (yes, I did run into that comp sometimes even though it was uncommon).

I still don't understand why the devs seem so insistent on absolutely having a middle point between high DPS (MCH) and support (DNC), forcing it on BRD, save for easy balancing. They have their metrics and I'm pretty sure it's not looking good when it comes to this class, especially seeing as the new PCT has a wide-array of support available while still dealing an amazing amount of damage, thus being an attractive option for whatever amount of players that still shoot arrows.

I think what Bard needs right now isn't "moar damage" like they've done for 3 expansions now, it's actually exclusive buffs: Foe's Requiem, Refresh, Palissade (and I know that Squadron Bards still have those last 2 so the code is absolutely in the game and ready for implementation). Stuff that other classes do not have at their disposal.

There are also ways to have 2 different types of Supports in the rDPS role, since buff options are far and wide. Heck, Foe's was a debuff so that adds even more possibilities (and it's not like the forums haven't suggested hundreds of pages worth of buffs/debuffs/classes as ideas).

People have said before that I should be happy that Bard is getting more damage.
I never wanted more damage, I just wanted to support my party in a meaningful manner without playing Healer. To say I should be happy I get to do more DPS while my support kit is crippled is ignoring the reason people enjoyed this class. If I wanted more damage, I'd play one of those that do a better job at that than Bard, like Machinist.

This is probably tin-foil hat of me, but I truly believe that the developers either believe there can’t be more than one heavy support/utility phys ranged—or they are afraid of the phys ranged absolutely dominating party comps like they did in HW and early SB (before Patch 4.1 happened and they broke SMN). A part of me even believes that they are punishing BRD for how good it was from ARR launch all the way until they destroyed it in ShB; that they think “it’s time for another job to shine” — but what they don’t realize is that the phys ranged are in a terrible state.

Like it was with ShB and thoughts were being entertained of forsaking the 1% party bonus a phys ranged would give for double BLM, now thoughts are being entertained of doing double caster AGAIN given Pictomancer’s potencies and if they decide to buff BLM for the Savage release. Instead of the phys ranged dominating anything, they are the redheaded stepchild of DPS jobs. DNC only skirts by because it can buff whatever the strongest melee is (usually SAM).

At the end of the day, I never cared about being top DPS. What I enjoyed was the optimization and part support SB BRD and even HW BRD offered (though the HW songs being a 10% damage penalty was a dumb design). I would give anything to have SB BRD back. Power creep and all because let’s be honest: there’s very little care about job balance in this game, so why destroy one job for it. I would even take bowmage back—but I actually liked bowmage, so… (yeah, I know I’m the minority there LOL).

[Xieldras]

Text.

Glad to see I'm not alone with enjoying Bow Mage! Despite the casting being a bit awkward, I found myself enjoying the class before the SB overhaul (and what an overhaul it was, I miss it so much).

All ranged DPS classes are in a weird spot. Their buffs are sort of available in other roles (I know MNK's Mantra offers the same as Nature's Minne) or don't offer enough meaningful support/DPS that raid compositions seem willing to forgo them entirely for a higher damage dealer/faster kill time. Heck I felt rather insulted when Pictomancer's support was showcased. We're supposed to be the "Support DPS" role, so why does a caster get as much as they did while still retaining higher-end damage?!

It's also that the combat system is specifically designed and polished for one thing: Dodge, Mechanics and Kill. From the few fights I did recently, you do not get cleansable debuffs in higher-end stuff. That's already a situational unique skill of Bard's that will thus never be useful. And it's sad because those situations do make for a nice story! Like saving that Healer from a last-minute Doom that would've seen your alliance wiped.

I wasn't around for ShB (I quit the game once the crippled support was revealed - just recently returned), so I don't know how the raid scene was then or even throughout EW. However I think it says something when you can have two of the same role except for rDPS...
Even in PVP they crippled BRD so much with the Silence 3-way-nerf while others merely got a duration or range nerf. It's like they have something in particular against the ranged guys I swear.

[Maxilor]

Hewwo!