Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Rannie]

Dude, sand sucks. Why do you hate relatable villains? It is coarse, rough and irritating and it does get everywhere. I don't think there's a more relatable line in all of Star Wars than that one.

<--- native floridian and been to the beach a lot dear... it's annoying but not something to go "I hate sand because it gets everywhere" =P

[SeriousPan]

<--- native floridian and been to the beach a lot dear... it's annoying but not something to go "I hate sand because it gets everywhere" =P

I'm bloody Australian and lived near the beach my whole life! I have never stopped hating sand.

I can tolerate it on the surface... but my heart knows how I feel.

[Rannie]

I'm bloody Australian and lived near the beach my whole life! I have never stopped hating sand.

I can tolerate it on the surface... but my heart knows how I feel.

Seriously hating sand that much *shakes head* again annoying but it happens *shrugs* whatever though you do you and feel your way

[Karious]

Back on topic... Boy did they really just have us pull an Emet Selch on the people of Solution nine? Like not even looking at other options or considering how the people there were not different than the omnicrons? Just a "nah flip the power switch fuck em" ????

[SeriousPan]

Back on topic... Boy did they really just have us pull an Emet Selch on the people of Solution nine? Like not even looking at other options or considering how the people there were not different than the omnicrons? Just a "nah flip the power switch fuck em" ????

Not really, the key difference is how we exist. We exist at the cost of no one but the Ancients and from them sprouted several shards of individual life that subsists on itself and affects no one else. The Memories require the living to be killed and have their souls taken away and denied the cycle of rebirth, effectively taking them out of existance permanently. It's unsustainable long term and, as Sphene mentions, the amount of people it supports is increasing all the time. One city might require 10 souls harvest one day... then 20... then 100... then 1000.

More people, more death. There was no alternative way to keep the system operational. AI Sphene activates an Intershard WMD to wipe out an insane amount of life all at once in several different shards. The comparison falls apart as soon as it becomes "save the living or spare a system that will run out of souls to harvest eventually and shut down anyway."

[Karious]

Not really, the key difference is how we exist. We exist at the cost of no one but the Ancients and from them sprouted several shards of individual life that subsists on itself and affects no one else. The Memories require the living to be killed and have their souls taken away and denied the cycle of rebirth, effectively taking them out of existance permanently. It's unsustainable long term and, as Sphene mentions, the amount of people it supports is increasing all the time. One city might require 10 souls harvest one day... then 20... then 100... then 1000.

More people, more death. There was no alternative way to keep the system operational. AI Sphene activates an Intershard WMD to wipe out an insane amount of life all at once in several different shards. The comparison falls apart as soon as it becomes "save the living or spare a system that will run out of souls to harvest eventually and shut down anyway."

I get that, yeah. Just seems weird they didn't even try to bring up Dynamis or something and be like "there's an infinite amount of this stuff in the universe, we're all the smartest people in this setting we don't we jury rig your system to run off dynamis instead so youre not soul harvesting".

Its an ultimatum, but it just seems out of character for the scions to pull an "us or them" when Emet did it two expansions ago on the scions.

[Voidmage]

Not really, the key difference is how we exist. We exist at the cost of no one but the Ancients and from them sprouted several shards of individual life that subsists on itself and affects no one else. The Memories require the living to be killed and have their souls taken away and denied the cycle of rebirth, effectively taking them out of existance permanently. It's unsustainable long term and, as Sphene mentions, the amount of people it supports is increasing all the time. One city might require 10 souls harvest one day... then 20... then 100... then 1000.

More people, more death. There was no alternative way to keep the system operational. AI Sphene activates an Intershard WMD to wipe out an insane amount of life all at once in several different shards. The comparison falls apart as soon as it becomes "save the living or spare a system that will run out of souls to harvest eventually and shut down anyway."

Problem was not that there was no other solution (Omicrons) but that there was no grey area.
That part could have been a great inner turmoil where we remember Emet but all of that gets taken away because they WANT to be deleted.
They are happy for the end and so there is no gray area just oh well.
I thought it was disgusting because while the system was sick those people for me were still living and the little sidequests sad for me.

[EusisLandale]

Not really, the key difference is how we exist. We exist at the cost of no one but the Ancients and from them sprouted several shards of individual life that subsists on itself and affects no one else. The Memories require the living to be killed and have their souls taken away and denied the cycle of rebirth, effectively taking them out of existance permanently. It's unsustainable long term and, as Sphene mentions, the amount of people it supports is increasing all the time. One city might require 10 souls harvest one day... then 20... then 100... then 1000.

More people, more death. There was no alternative way to keep the system operational. AI Sphene activates an Intershard WMD to wipe out an insane amount of life all at once in several different shards. The comparison falls apart as soon as it becomes "save the living or spare a system that will run out of souls to harvest eventually and shut down anyway."

That's why looking at other options and bringing up the omicrons specifically. They accomplished essentially the same thing Sphene was trying to do without the whole soul sucking business.
Even if it didn't work out in the end, offering up a potential alternate solution to their problem that we are very much aware of would've been nice. "Hey, rather than aether intensive hard light hologram bodies, have you considered mechanical ones? We could hook you up with some people that know how to make that work if you'd just put your apocalypse plan on hold for like a week."

[Lady_Silvermoon]

Problem was not that there was no other solution (Omicrons) but that there was no grey area.
That part could have been a great inner turmoil where we remember Emet but all of that gets taken away because they WANT to be deleted.
They are happy for the end and so there is no gray area just oh well.
I thought it was disgusting because while the system was sick those people for me were still living and the little sidequests sad for me.

Three of them wanted to be deleted and all three are parents to the people they'd be protecting by being erased. But 90% of them aren't even physical and get no say in what's going to happen to them. Heck, we didn't even tell Krile's parents. They figured it out. And that is a major issue. Why are these non-people figuring things out? Why are these non-people escaping the Matrix and running rebellions? Why am I dressing up like a bunny for these non-people?

We handwave away their personhood to keep the story moving, but they show every indicator of intelligent life. They have hopes, desires, feelings, discernment. What about them is not a person besides some metaphysical discussion we weren't allowed to have before we agreed to delete them all at a non-person's request! If these are not people worthy of our consideration, why are we obeying one of them?

That's why looking at other options and bringing up the omicrons specifically. They accomplished essentially the same thing Sphene was trying to do without the whole soul sucking business.
Even if it didn't work out in the end, offering up a potential alternate solution to their problem that we are very much aware of would've been nice. "Hey, rather than aether intensive hard light hologram bodies, have you considered mechanical ones? We could hook you up with some people that know how to make that work if you'd just put your apocalypse plan on hold for like a week."

I just wanted to scream at her STOP TRYING TO BE EMET-SELCH! YOU ARE NOT EMET-SELCH! The Sundered are made of parts of his people. There is no splitting the difference and coming to terms with that one. Immortality? We've run across like 44 different options for immortality. We got clones, we got omicron, we got dynamis, we got options.

So, of course, bad programming immediately breaks her brain so the plot will happen...

[Voidmage]

Three of them wanted to be deleted and all three are parents to the people they'd be protecting by being erased. But 90% of them aren't even physical and get no say in what's going to happen to them. Heck, we didn't even tell Krile's parents. They figured it out. And that is a major issue. Why are these non-people figuring things out? Why are these non-people escaping the Matrix and running rebellions? Why am I dressing up like a bunny for these non-people?

We handwave away their personhood to keep the story moving, but they show every indicator of intelligent life. They have hopes, desires, feelings, discernment. What about them is not a person besides some metaphysical discussion we weren't allowed to have before we agreed to delete them all at a non-person's request! If these are not people worthy of our consideration, why are we obeying one of them?.

Yeah. It’s basically the topic of at what point is an AI a living being.
For me all those people were alive. They were not the originals but there was no distinction between them.
Krile treated her parents like they were real and yet the game treats them as just memories and not living.

It’s really strange and goes against much of the narrative till now.

I like it for the question it offers and the philosophy but I hate how the game treaded it.
That play and ice cream scenes were just another „look Wuk Lamat is important“ try instead of going into detail with those people.
This should have been the zone were WE are at the center thinking about it and having Emets words with us. Were we contemplate how the Ascians felt and maybe come to terms with „at the end of the day we all just want to survive but the world is not always just“