Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Eyrilona]

Venat held the title of Azem.

No?

I have a two point argument on this;

First, and this is a technicality, at the time she resorted to sundering the world, it was after relinquishing the right to call herself the seat of Azem already, so while I understand where you come from, sundering the world is not a part of the legacy of Azem. We can't be sure if she was still giving herself entirely to the code of conduct of the seat -- after all, no longer being bound by the role of your seat is kind of the sole point of relinquishing it without intent to return to the star. We just don't know.

But more importantly, In the sundering, the world and people that she sundered were the very thing she knew that action would save in the long run. She was not taking sides in a conflict there, she wasn't against the right to exist of the people she sundered -- on the contrary. she was acting on unique information about what was necessary to leave a chance of long term survival for anyone at all.

The actions in Alexandria in contrast are a case of one side wiping out an opposing side shortly after having met them for the first time.

What Venat did was make a painful sacrifice, and in contrast what we did in Alexandria was achieve an entirely one-sided victory. It is not the same.

[Edewen]

what we did in Alexandria was achieve an entirely one-sided victory. It is not the same.

What we did in Alexandria was shut down a computer. The endless are not people. It was an ai driven program wanting to kill people to fuel their version of the sims. You are trying to paint us as bad guys for seeing that...

[Aulainn]

What we did in Alexandria was shut down a computer. The endless are not people. It was an ai driven program wanting to kill people to fuel their version of the sims. You are trying to paint us as bad guys for seeing that...

It was a machine bringing memories back to life, memories which literally make a person as we witnessed with G'raha Tia. Imagine we managed to make bodies for these memories to inhabit without needing other peoples souls.

[Edewen]

It was a machine bringing memories back to life, memories which literally make a person as we witnessed with G'raha Tia. Imagine we managed to make bodies for these memories to inhabit without needing other peoples souls.

From my understanding.

The Alexandrians put a lot of work into separating memories from the souls. This is a stark contrast to Graha. When dealing with the first. The whole soul was transported, with the memories attached.

In this situation, it is like the soul itself is a flash drive with data on it. And Alex is literally taking peoples flash drive, reformatting it, and writing thier own data over top of it.

Even if the souls were considered alive at this point, the violation of the very core of someone being like this is probably the worst crime we have ever seen in 14. The souls, have been ripped out of the cycle of life and death, no longer dissipating into the aetherial sea to be reborn. They are more than killing peoples bodies, but preventing rebirth through the cycle of life and death.

As protectors of the source and all its reflections, we didn't go far enough. We deleted the endless. Which in theory should have allowed the souls to rejoin the cycle. But we should have razed the entire factory to dust to release those remaining souls, only drawing a line allowing the living citizens to live.

Memories are not life. The souls are. Even if we made bodies for those souls whose memories have been overwritten, all we would doing is assisting the the grossest violation in the history of ff14. Cultural understand. I understand it is wrong. Period.

[EusisLandale]

Memories are not life. The souls are.

I wouldn't say that necessarily. Memories are life, souls are what allow living.
Souls are established to just be aether like just about everything else in the setting. Functionally speaking, sucking the soul out of some random dude off the street is no different than eating a tainted apple. We know this for sure from the previous storyline.
By removing the memories from the soul all you've done is decontaminate the aether, allowing it to sustain any memory without the schizophrenic side effect.

[Eyrilona]

What we did in Alexandria was shut down a computer. The endless are not people. It was an ai driven program wanting to kill people to fuel their version of the sims. You are trying to paint us as bad guys for seeing that...

Yes and no, because then the game goes on emotion trips with these supposed AI in which we are supposed to act as if this IS a genuine reconnection between Krile and her parents, or Erenville and his mother/mentor, and in which these AI characters are written no less soulful than anything else in this game... so that takes us right back to it being terrible writing that is not even credibly delivering its own intention. It comes across as if the writers had absolutely no idea what they were even doing here.

[CottonC]

What we did in Alexandria was shut down a computer. The endless are not people. It was an ai driven program wanting to kill people to fuel their version of the sims. You are trying to paint us as bad guys for seeing that...

Well, the question is not if they are or not, but are we the right person to decide if they are - Lamat certainly is not qualified.

And it'd be nice if someone defending the plot, which can be defended despite the piling up issues, noticed how Emet Selch got killed by us, when he decided to snuff out the humanity as we know it based on thin aether, fractions of sundered souls, shades of what he knew and considered living. If we believe that people of Eorza, whole Source and all shards had the right to live in the current state, how can any WoL make lightly decision of killing/deleting something that looks like a life based only on not being able to understand this life, how can it live if it has no aether? To be fair, since someone earlier said how anyone critically looking at the plot of DT can call themselves WoL and that they do not deserve to walk the path of Azem... I am fairly sure, if we want to go with the lore of the world, that Azem was not known by how easy they murdered civilizations.