SPOILERS - I have questions about calamities and the order of events from DT

[silentwindfr]

Just wanted to note

The Ascians didn't have time travel, either, because Emet Selch wanted to question the Exarch about it. It's entirely possible for things to be done that the Ascians can't natively do. Frankly, for all we know the key existed as a way to bring about a Calamity that failed because, well...It was used at the wrong time.

true, but they was always monitoring shard then... i doubt they haven't notice that.

probably this technology source will become the main point of the next arc... but soo far it is quite strange.

[Ilenya]

true, but they was always monitoring shard then... i doubt they haven't notice that.

probably this technology source will become the main point of the next arc... but soo far it is quite strange.

It's entirely possible that they just lost track of it, with everything going on at the time. I'm not saying that it is something of theirs, just that it's an option.

[Garolymar]

I can't remember if Emet ever mention this or if it's accurate at all but in the cutscene where Emet is explaining calamities and the reflections are their "locations" I guess you'd call them, accurate? Are the 11th and 12th closer in a sense that maybe travel between them would be easier? if so I do wonder

Since the 12ths calamity was lighting aspected maybe Sphenes world is the 11th reflection and there was some spillover to the 11th and it's what caused the world to be more heavily aspected towards lightning?

[PotatoTree]

well a point to note:

about continuity, did you notice that the event of endwalker didn't affect tural?i means the whole people turning into monster killing each other and such? because i doubt tural was a place filled with rainbow and such...
about the number we can't even know if it's the same reflect, don't forget that if it did indeed fuse with the primal world, the 12th can't exist anymore, then it's technically another one... another point, where do come this technology? i means even ascian didn't have a technology allowing them to cross between reflect with them body, it's said a lot of time.... that some weird stuff... i feel the story was not double check and continuity is messed up badly in dawntrail.

I think this can be sort of hand wavy explained by thinking that the Aether lines explained in EW were not the weakest around Tural. It was mentioned by the Watcher that it affected the weak points of the star first. Also Tural was basically in their golden age, everyone was in peace and happy so not much to despair about.

Back to the order of events:

I think maybe there's also a bit of confusion on the bubble, the lalas in living memory, etc.

I think the timeline for the 12th was described as follows:

12th:
start -> lalas arrive, bring arcana to the 12th -> electrope found -> Alexandria vs Lindblum -> calamity of lightning -> Alexandria escapes rejoining by being in a electrope bubble -> Alexandria researches inter-dimensional fusion

Source
start -> bunch of calamities, including the 2nd one which is lightning from 12th rejoining the source -> bunch more time passes -> 5th calamity is ice, lalas from alolo escape using the key -> bunch more time passes


Then the timelines align afterwards:
Krile's parents send the key back to the source in opposition to Alexandria's plans to siphon Aether from other worlds -> Zoraal Ja brings the key back, Alexandria's bubble is able to merge with the source -> the top part of Alexandria's bubble is Living memory, and remains in where ever Alexandria was safe, this may be what's left of the 12th or some other interdimensional space


So in the timeline, what's intertwined or unclear is the Alolo lalas, it seems like the order of events is reversed between their arrival in the 12th and the rejoining.

It's hinted with Azem's Orobos theme, and Azems symbol on the key, and how the key is like a miniature crystal tower, that there may be some time loop shenanigans happening.

A few things that are unclear are:
1. when a shard is rejoined, does some husk exist? Does Living Memory exist in this husk?
2. if it's possible to go back in time to a previous version of the shard before a rejoining happens like the Alolo lalas may have done with the key, what are the consequences of this and what was Azem doing? Was Azem like some time traveling planeswalker?
3. Was this all to open up the possibility of us visiting rejoined shards?

Now of course as we learn more maybe there will be some more wrenches thrown in. The 12th vs 11th is interesting, Sphenes world being actually the 11th and affected by the neighboring 12th would be a nice twist.

[Alenore]

Back to the order of events:

I think maybe there's also a bit of confusion on the bubble, the lalas in living memory, etc.

I think the timeline for the 12th was described as follows:

12th:
start -> lalas arrive, bring arcana to the 12th -> electrope found -> Alexandria vs Lindblum -> calamity of lightning -> Alexandria escapes rejoining by being in a electrope bubble -> Alexandria researches inter-dimensional fusion

Source
start -> bunch of calamities, including the 2nd one which is lightning from 12th rejoining the source -> bunch more time passes -> 5th calamity is ice, lalas from alolo escape using the key -> bunch more time passes


Then the timelines align afterwards:
Krile's parents send the key back to the source in opposition to Alexandria's plans to siphon Aether from other worlds -> Zoraal Ja brings the key back, Alexandria's bubble is able to merge with the source -> the top part of Alexandria's bubble is Living memory, and remains in where ever Alexandria was safe, this may be what's left of the 12th or some other interdimensional space


So in the timeline, what's intertwined or unclear is the Alolo lalas, it seems like the order of events is reversed between their arrival in the 12th and the rejoining.

It's hinted with Azem's Orobos theme, and Azems symbol on the key, and how the key is like a miniature crystal tower, that there may be some time loop shenanigans happening.

A few things that are unclear are:
1. when a shard is rejoined, does some husk exist? Does Living Memory exist in this husk?
2. if it's possible to go back in time to a previous version of the shard before a rejoining happens like the Alolo lalas may have done with the key, what are the consequences of this and what was Azem doing? Was Azem like some time traveling planeswalker?
3. Was this all to open up the possibility of us visiting rejoined shards?

Now of course as we learn more maybe there will be some more wrenches thrown in. The 12th vs 11th is interesting, Sphenes world being actually the 11th and affected by the neighboring 12th would be a nice twist.

About that

Living Memory isn't in an interdimensional space since we see the sun shining on it during the end. Which also means it's no longer so lightning aspected.

The Aloalo Lalas most likely didn't go to the 12th, they went to whatever shard Alexandria was in. Cleretic already summed it up in this post https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6518280

[Sairys]

[HB]

A few things that are unclear are:
2. if it's possible to go back in time to a previous version of the shard before a rejoining happens like the Alolo lalas may have done with the key, what are the consequences of this and what was Azem doing? Was Azem like some time traveling planeswalker?

We kinda know the answer to this

It's covered in Shadowbringers.
* G'raha sealed himself inside the Crystal Tower by the end of ARR.
* Cid developed the time travel theory after the Eighth Calamity to try and undo it by reaching the First before its rejoining.
* Two hundred years after the Calamity, that research had been passed down to one of Biggs descendants who, in turn, woke up G'raha.
* G'raha travelled back in time to before the Calamity and to the First using the Crystal Tower, but time dilation meant he arrived too early on the First and had to wait to summon the WoL.

We've also kinda seen what happens if you change the future given that's what happened in Shadowbringers. If the Milalla changed the past and prevented the second calamity from being completed, you'd expect it should be a similar situation to what happened with the First, the WoL should be living in a world where the twelfth wasn't fully rejoined it also would have happened long before they were born so it should have "always been that way" where Shadowbringers avoided dealing with that timey-wimey headache by making it a future we averted.

[Denishia]

Also I think we may be on the right track here:

What if electrope ISN'T native to Sphene's Shard but introduced via Ascian shenanigans as a surviving relict of the Rejoined Shard destroyed in the Calamity of Lightning? Like using the auracite and Thirteenth survivors in plots to destabilize the Source and the First, the elemental affinity is a red herring, and the lightning aether influence went wildly out of hand because of time progression and Ascian distraction.

[Raiya]

That...Would end up with a hilariously silly miscalculation on the Ascian's part I don't see happening. After the 13th fell to the Flood of Darkness, I imagine they were very careful to not make mistakes, and leaving behind parts of the aether that was supposed to go to the source is a pretty big problem on their end.

Could be wrong. Just seems unlikely. To me it all sounds closer to a shard being prepped for Calamity 9, but with no Ascians babysitting it, it went a little out of hand until the shard basically ended up with Electric Eulmore.

Unless that wasnt the plan and the Ascians overseeing it bailed the scene when Emet and Elidibus were killed. We don't know what happened to some of the remaining ascians as well after the Unsundered were slain too.

[Alenore]

Unless that wasnt the plan and the Ascians overseeing it bailed the scene when Emet and Elidibus were killed. We don't know what happened to some of the remaining ascians as well after the Unsundered were slain too.

Emet and Elidibus were killed very recently. Krile is in the Source for at least 20 years, so the shard was already in a bad state way before they were killed.

[Lyth]

When an aetheric flood/Calamity occurs, it shifts the polarity of the other shards. The known example that we have of this is the Flood of Darkness on the Thirteenth, which altered the polarity of the First.

'In an age past, the world you know as the Thirteenth was flooded by Darkness. Like ripples of water, the repercussions were felt in the other shards, none more so than here on the First. It became perilously imbalanced and susceptible to the influence of the light.' (Mitron, Shadows of the Past, Lv.80).

We know that the Second Umbral Calamity (of Lightning) rejoined the Twelfth. I'd be interested if anyone has actually confirmed which shard Living Memory is from, but I think that it makes more sense if it's a world that isn't yet rejoined (i.e. Fourth, Eighth, Ninth, or Eleventh). It's interesting to note that the Sixth Umbral Calamity (of Water), which is tied to the War of the Magi and Nym, is associated with the Tenth, because they have similar spacing to the Light/Darkness pair. If that's the case, then it could be that there was a second lightning-aspected world in the Eighth resulting from the water calamity. That's my guess for the location of Sphene's world.