Finished the MSQ - Feels bad, pushed to do evil [Spoilers inside]

[Kaecilius]

"Erm, Listen. The citizens of this city are machines that have been implanted with the memories of dead people and they can only subsist off of eating human flesh, so if you shut down the machine that turns living people into human meat cubes you're dooming all of these machines to death. You're evil"

This isn't some grand philosophical debate. This isn't even any different from things you've done in the past. Sphene is Temu Emet, and you shutting down the machine is just you preventing Emet from completing the rejoining again. It's almost an identical situation. You're not evil for doing this. The dead have to make way for the living. Sphene's guilt over not being able to save her people doesn't mean the rest of the world has to be doomed into being fuel for her dream machine.

The problem is that it *is* a philosophical debate. The narrative just doesn't bother with it.

It is implied that a lot of the citizens in Living Memory had no choice when it came to being uploaded to the cloud (see Namikka), it is also shown that they are living a happy existence and many of them have feelings, hopes and plans for the future.

Are they alive? Not exactly, but they have sentience and consciousness. There's a question of what being alive means that the game entirely sidesteps so we can be morally right.

The citizens of Living Memory are not to blame for the choices Sphene makes, and up until this point the system had not preyed upon any other reflection beyond the attack on Tuliyollal, and we've forgiven people that done shit much worse than that. Even Gaius is one of our best buddies.

What we did was necessary, but we never wrestled with the weight of it, because we don't consider their existence worthy of it.

[ClayyLmao]

The problem is that it *is* a philosophical debate. The narrative just doesn't bother with it.

It is implied that a lot of the citizens in Living Memory had no choice when it came to being uploaded to the cloud (see Namikka), it is also shown that they are living a happy existence and many of them have feelings, hopes and plans for the future.

Are they alive? Not exactly, but they have sentience and consciousness. There's a question of what being alive means that the game entirely sidesteps so we can be morally right.

The citizens of Living Memory are not to blame for the choices Sphene makes, and up until this point the system had not preyed upon any other reflection beyond the attack on Tuliyollal, and we've forgiven people that done shit much worse than that. Even Gaius is one of our best buddies.

What we did was necessary, but we never wrestled with the weight of it, because we don't consider their existence worthy of it.

I didn't say it wasn't a philosophical debate. It is. It's just such a simple one that there is no wrestling with it. They aren't alive. They are computer programs running the dead's memories over and over again ad infinitum. They aren't the souls of the people who died. The souls of the dead are sold to the citizens to be used to revive themselves when they die. They are purely the memories of the dead being forced to play out a happy life because the AI that contains Sphene's memories was programed to put the continuation of the simulation above all else. My WoL would happily shut down the simulation rather than go and start harvesting the souls of the billions of innocent lives in every reflection for the benefit of the tens of thousands in the simulation. It's not a debate. You either shut down the machine, or start throwing babies into the soul extracting wood chipper for Sphene.

[BakoolJaJa]

It's just such a simple one that there is no wrestling with it.

It's a "simple" one, only because the writers didn't bother to flesh it out one single bit. I'm imagining right now what a terrible game Nier Replicant would have been if it just... deleted 80% of the game that is the exploration of what the replicants are and how the different characters feel about it. Then instead of discussions for years after the game's release, a successful sequel, anime, etc, everybody would have just said - "There's nothing to debate here, they're obviously not alive." and that would have been the end of the franchise.

Top writing. Exactly what we should be praising and hoping next expansions are like.