Finished the MSQ - Feels bad, pushed to do evil [Spoilers inside]

[Pupsicle]

Okay but wasn't the whole point that the dead residents of Living Memory didn't want to sustain their lives at the cost of ours? Some endless were directly at odds with their existence. An ongoing theme in Dawntrail is leaders who don't necessarily understand the goals for their people and can no longer effectively represent them. We see this once with the Mamool Ja, and then again here.

Additionally, the question being posed by comparing Tural and Wuk Lamat to Sphene and Living Memory is this: Can a nation that only cares about its own citizens thrive? Does a ruler who only cares about their own people make a thriving nation?

Wuk Lamat's position at the end of the day, is to extend the same courtesy to innocents of another nation as she would her own. Seeking understanding and acceptance so that they may help one another to flourish. Sphene on the other hand, who's kingdom is represented as existing in a bubble, has no obligation to the other innocents outside of her bubble and will not extend that courtesy to explore other options. Because of this, Sphene's self-serving kingdom will run out of resources, as they on their own can not sustain their own existence and they will not compromise.

[Shialan]

but that we didn't even try to find a solution where both worlds can coexist. If we had tried every reasonable approach and nothing worked, it would be still sad, but a more reasonable thing to do.

Who would we find this solution for? Have not played the same story? Sphene did not want to find any other solution. She was so far gone in her own world that she could not see any other way out.

It feels as if a lot of people never met people who do not want to listen to your help. Who only see their way.

[GrizzlyTank]

Pushed to do evil? The last zone is pretty much a computer running on human lives.

And hadn't waifu Hal 2000 tried to rush a mass genocide to fuel itself we might have had time to make something more sustainable, least for those already added to the cloud.

[HighlanderClone]

Wouldn't it be great if this intricate, philosophical discussion we're having in the forums had happened ingame?
I find the themes that are supposedly tackled in this narrative to be more openly discussed in the forums than in the game. Great story

Wouldn't it be great if this intricate, philosophical discussion we're having in the forums had happened ingame?
I find the themes that are supposedly tackled in this narrative to be more openly discussed in the forums than in the game. Great story

Wouldn't it be great if this intricate, philosophical discussion we're having in the forums had happened ingame?
I find the themes that are supposedly tackled in this narrative to be more openly discussed in the forums than in the game. Great story

Wouldn't it be great if this intricate, philosophical discussion we're having in the forums had happened ingame?
I find the themes that are supposedly tackled in this narrative to be more openly discussed in the forums than in the game. Great story

Say it louder for the people at the back!!

Can you imagine spending 2.5 years working on this script so shallow that forum users can have a far deeper discussion on in just a few hours.

[Kaecilius]

But she did not want that. She wanted to help her people RIGHT THEN RIGHT THERE.

How does almost no one understand this? Did it look to you that she was willing to listen to the WoL about some maybes?

She wasn't ever going to listen, no. We needed a final boss.

But my issue is with the characterization of the Scions, scholars and sages, that don't even stop to ponder and wrestle with the implications of what they're doing. They are just told these are copies and run with it, despite one of the copies clearly displaying emotions, sentience, learning capabilities and enough autonomy to operate outside of the system in the Source itself. There is even a child in one of the yellow quests that says he is inspired by the WoL to learn more and see the world... and then is summarily erased.

The party only struggles with shutting off the servers, so to speak, when the NPC involved is personally related to them. Sphene was never going to listen, but the Scions didn't even *try* to consider an alternative.

[GrizzlyTank]

She wasn't ever going to listen, no. We needed a final boss.

But my issue is with the characterization of the Scions, scholars and sages, that don't even stop to ponder and wrestle with the implications of what they're doing. They are just told these are copies and run with it, despite one of the copies clearly displaying emotions, sentience, learning capabilities and enough autonomy to operate outside of the system in the Source itself. There is even a child in one of the yellow quests that says he is inspired by the WoL to learn more and see the world... and then is summarily erased.

The party only struggles with shutting off the servers, so to speak, when the NPC involved is personally related to them. Sphene was never going to listen, but the Scions didn't even *try* to consider an alternative.

Because there was unfortunately no time to wrestle with the implications since given enough time. Schene would have become a umbral calamity in itself, eating away at the other shards til there was nothing left. Which would also have resulted in her own death unless she did like in the Matrix, which she would be against doing since even those humanoid battery husks would have to be uploaded to the cloud.

Schene by the point we meet her, is a black hole.

[Kaecilius]

Because there was unfortunately no time to wrestle with the implications since given enough time. Schene would have become a umbral calamity in itself, eating away at the other shards til there was nothing left. Which would also have resulted in her own death unless she did like in the Matrix, which she would be against doing since even those humanoid battery husks would have to be uploaded to the cloud.

Schene by the point we meet her, is a black hole.

The thing is that we did have enough time to go on flying capybara rides and put on a theater play with Otis. We could have had a conversation about trying to save the Alexandrians, and decide we had to do something terrible for the greater good.

[Galvuu]

Who would we find this solution for? Have not played the same story? Sphene did not want to find any other solution. She was so far gone in her own world that she could not see any other way out.

It feels as if a lot of people never met people who do not want to listen to your help. Who only see their way.

At no point did any of the Scions or the WoL push forward a genuine solution. It was all a bunch of:
"Is there no other way...? I know you're a good person, but I love my people too...!"
Never was an actual solution proposed.
We see from Ottis being alive in his robot body for centuries that something clearly might be done. We have the knowledge of Sharlayan, of Allag, of Garlemald.
The Garleans had their mind upload thing when they were researching the Echo in Stormblood, the Allagans can do something similar and pseudo-revive people with stable clones that do not necessitate an aether drain (as seen with Xande), Sharlayans have God knows what else, the Exarch had his mind from the First transplanted to the Source using knowledge that only Allag and the First alchemists have.
We have gathered a titanic wealth of knowledge across civilizations, dimensions and time itself that Sphene cannot even imagine.
And some of our greatest scholars are present right there. And none of them bring any of these up- hell, Krle was involved in the Echo incident in Stormblood.
Much like the scions never bother bringing up they can cure the paralyzed boy's sickness, caused by an aetheric imbalance that sounds suspiciously like tempering.

Sphene was set on her ways and might have never been convinced, and maybe none of this technology would've worked, but we'll never know because we didn't freaking try.

[Loggos]

But right next to us stands G'raha Tia who is basically restored memory backup of the Crystal Exarch...

I don't disagree with your post but isn't G'raha techically different because his body has a soul (to which the exarch's memories have been added)?
I know this goes back to the whole "soul" vs. "self" problem in FF14. They are kind of inconsistent on that because Meteion doesn't have a soul iirc and she is obviously recognised as someone with a "self". So I think the writers' issue with the endless is them "not having a soul (anymore)/being extracted from a person's soul (= their true "core" as a person) + already being dead". Somebody else already said it but facsimile seems to be a synonym for "spirit", a lingering residual of a dead person that needs to move on.
(I don't agree with that, I'm just trying to understand their logic.)
But according to those rules G'raha would be a person whereas the endless wouldn't be.

[Eyrilona]

The thing is that we did have enough time to go on flying capybara rides and put on a theater play with Otis. We could have had a conversation about trying to save the Alexandrians, and decide we had to do something terrible for the greater good.

This. We are told two conflicting things -- that there is not even time to consider alternatives, but also that there is no sense of actual urgency at all. We have over five minutes and two cutscenes about eating actual literal popcorn in the middle of this segment!