Do healers actually want a more complex damage rotation?

[Zaytex]

The focus MUST be on healing. Not damage rotations. The minute you have a "damage rotation" it's no longer a healer, and someone tasked with healing will neglect the healing job because "but muh DPS!"

Like I would be completely happy with the entire GCD DPS kit disappearing under party play. But I don't want to be stuck with nothing to do. Spamming healing uselessly just leads to the problem we already have where the developers think we're pressing medica/M2/M3 every 2 seconds to keep the party alive, when by the time the gear creep catches up, the party doesn't take enough damage to justify that. There is quite literately "too much healing kit, not enough reason to use it."

Two things remain true in DT, that have been true ever since the introduction of the NPC squad.
- You as the healer can tell the NPC's to run into battle, and then you can sit back and drink your tea while they don't need you at all.
- The NPC's combat scripts are "too perfect", so when you get to a boss fight all you have to do is follow one of the DPS. Forget doing anything at all. The only way you can KO Y'shtola or Alisae in a boss fight is by intentionally running a "meteor" marker on top of them instead of spreading out. Something I will add, Krile keeps doing.

Now, not EVERY fight you can get away with it, but you can pretty much pick any NPC trust enabled fight and just use the DPS kit and likely the tank will survive anyway. That's genuinely concerning because it means the developers made the SAME assumption that everyone is just using the healer role as a green DPS.

Why are tanks allowed a DPS rotation then?

[flowerkatie]

Why are tanks allowed a DPS rotation then?

Why don't DPS have tank abilities if tank have DPS abilities? Cause they're a different role, that's nonsense. Tanks have a completely different role to healers and comparing them is such a terrible argument. Plus, even if we were to compare them, the argument of "X does this so why doesn't Y" is also a silly argument because nothing implies they should be the same or that X is a better solution than Y.

Your argument implies that cause Tanks have DPS, healers should have DPS. But then we can argue, because tanks have tank abilities, DPS should have tank abilities. It makes no sense, unless your argument is to say "But they're supports!!", just cause their 'title' is support doesn't mean they can be exclusively compared.

[Silver-Strider]

Why don't DPS have tank abilities if tank have DPS abilities? Cause they're a different role, that's nonsense. Tanks have a completely different role to healers and comparing them is such a terrible argument. Plus, even if we were to compare them, the argument of "X does this so why doesn't Y" is also a silly argument because nothing implies they should be the same or that X is a better solution than Y.

Your argument implies that cause Tanks have DPS, healers should have DPS. But then we can argue, because tanks have tank abilities, DPS should have tank abilities. It makes no sense, unless your argument is to say "But they're supports!!", just cause their 'title' is support doesn't mean they can be exclusively compared.

The problem stems from the fact that Tanks and DPS also have heals, mitigation and DPS that keeps getting stronger every expansion. The majority of healer's own toolkit isn't needed in casual content, leaving only Savage/Ultimates as a place to actually utilize our toolkits to their fullest potential, theoretically but as we've seen countless times now that even there, you can halfass your way there too. With more tools being given to other roles, that just exacerbates the issue even further, leaving the role with nothing else to do but spam the same filler ad nauseam in every bit of content this game has. How many more years of it do you expect anyone to realistically handle when we've been at it for 5 years at minimum already.

[GrimGale]

Why don't DPS have tank abilities if tank have DPS abilities? Cause they're a different role, that's nonsense. Tanks have a completely different role to healers and comparing them is such a terrible argument. Plus, even if we were to compare them, the argument of "X does this so why doesn't Y" is also a silly argument because nothing implies they should be the same or that X is a better solution than Y.

Your argument implies that cause Tanks have DPS, healers should have DPS. But then we can argue, because tanks have tank abilities, DPS should have tank abilities. It makes no sense, unless your argument is to say "But they're supports!!", just cause their 'title' is support doesn't mean they can be exclusively compared.

But DPS have mitigation abilities, same as tanks. They may not be as strong but they do have them.

But if the argument is, Healers should focus on healing so they should not have Damage buttons, you haven't still not explained why should any other class have tools that pertain to other roles.

Why aren't tanks just using a damage-less taunt to keep aggro. Why do tanks need a damage rotation when they could easily hold aggro pressing one button, if you designed them that way? After all by the same logic that healers should heal, tanks should tank, so they do not need complex damage rotations that distract them from "tanking".
Why should DPS classes have "support" abilities that distract them from dpsing?

[GrimGale]

Unless you have the ridiculous opinion that people playing healers are going to refuse to heal.

This is literally the argument against giving healers more dps tools by the way.

[flowerkatie]

But DPS have mitigation abilities, same as tanks. They may not be as strong but they do have them.

They have a single button or two, akin to what healers have. We're talking about giving more.

you haven't still not explained why should any other class have tools that pertain to other roles.

DPS mitigation and sustain is incredibly basic and in most cases a single button or two, this is exactly akin to how basic healer damage is. So I'm not exactly sure what you want me to explain, I'm not arguing to remove the very basic damage options, as I'm not arguing we should remove the very basic mitigation options.

After all by the same logic that healers should heal, tanks should tank, so they do not need complex damage rotations that distract them from "tanking".

I already answered this in my previous response, saying "X should do this because Y does this" is an argument you can make but it is an argument I disagree with, nothing says these two have to work the same way. Again, they are different roles and I'm not making any arguments of what tanks should or shouldn't have.

Why should DPS classes have "support" abilities that distract them from dpsing?

I never said they should or shouldn't, so I'm not sure why you're asking me. If you're asking because of my opinion on healers then you're just pulling at straws for the sake of it at this point. Healers should have basic DPS abilities, as they currently do. But healing needs fixing and the fix to that isn't focusing on the DPS. You're missing all my points entirely.

This is literally the argument against giving healers more dps tools by the way.

Perhaps for people who seriously think that choosing when to heal and when to damage is difficult, but its not my argument. Read most of my points and you'll see my arguments.

[SweetPete]

Nope. What these new DT dungeons has shown me is allot of the healers in this game are just terrible at healing. Their main job. If you’re a good healer then great I can’t wait to see you around and play together but so far from what I’ve seen. Yuck. Wiping for almost half an hour on DT dungeons is ridiculous because a healer must won’t press their healing skills much.

Again, if you are one of the few good healers this isn’t towards you. Though a hit dog will holler.

[Sani2341]

If you’re a good healer then great I can’t wait to see you around and play together

Thing is, a lot of the decent and better healers are starting to take the Response given to their feedback of "if you don't like healer, don't play it" and are doing just that.

[flowerkatie]

Nope. What these new DT dungeons has shown me is allot of the healers in this game are just terrible at healing. Their main job. If you’re a good healer then great I can’t wait to see you around and play together but so far from what I’ve seen. Yuck. Wiping for almost half an hour on DT dungeons is ridiculous because a healer must won’t press their healing skills much.

Not sure what you ranting about getting bad dungeon parties has to do with the discussion on healing to be honest. Sorry that you had such a bad experience in party-finder, I suppose?

[Silver-Strider]

Nope. What these new DT dungeons has shown me is allot of the healers in this game are just terrible at healing. Their main job. If you’re a good healer then great I can’t wait to see you around and play together but so far from what I’ve seen. Yuck. Wiping for almost half an hour on DT dungeons is ridiculous because a healer must won’t press their healing skills much.

Again, if you are one of the few good healers this isn’t towards you. Though a hit dog will holler.

Idk, I've been able to go from a boss at 60-70% with the healer and other DPS dead and still been able to clear most bosses, and that's as a MCH with a DRK tank.