Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Plasmaspy]

Just tried out a bunch of facial expressions and it's so bad. Because the new Fem Au Ra Face 2 mouth had its corners turned up unnaturally, all the smiles look uneven, with the corners going up way too far rather than a natural curve like before. If they were going to alter the mouth then why didn't they adjust the facial expressions to match? If that would've taken too long then why change the mouth in the first place? The facial expressions are the dealbreaker because my character's smile just looks so weird now. I used to love taking screenshots in gpose but I can't even recreate any of the expressions I remember.

I noticed that too with some emotes, a weird belle delphine lip curl now.

[Nabril]

The changes are much more obvious to people that have been familiarized with their character for many years.
The only people that hand wave or complain that people are wrong for reporting their personal feedback either;
don't care,
like the changes,
their character wasnt impacted,
use fantasia often,
or use mods to alter their appearance anyway.

My character looks the same. Even when I zoom WAAAAAYYYYY in do I see the tiniest of changes. His armour looks the same too. With how much the system requirements increased (I was easily running on maximum settings before the change and I'm still on maximum settings), I expected a big change. Instead, all I got were minute changes that can only be seen under a magnifying glass.

My point is, this update could have been completely undocumented and I would have never noticed.

[Aria_Nocturna]

My character used to look beautiful, lively, and otherwise alive.
Now she has become some hideous uncanny valley alien in broad daylight.
Even in perfectly even lighting (character creator), a flat and lifeless wax doll.







For the record, my Miqo'te alt looks fine, and even upgraded. My main, though...

I'm going to put Dawntrail content on hold, because seeing this uncanny valley wax doll in cutscenes would ruin all immersion.
Actually, my monthly subscription renews soon. Housing demolition timer just got paused too, so I'll just take a break for now.

Edit: Sigh, this post has caught the attention of the "but I can't see the difference!" trolls.
Is it really so hard to acknowledge how "graphics update" inherently means a change to the graphics?

Edit 2: Image links broke. Fixed.

[Velvina]

Not expecting any actual changes, just shooting my shot in the event there are any. ^^

TDLR, mainly concerned about Face 2 for Male Viera:

1. Lost baby face (full/squishy cheeks) and is too similar to face 3, while unfortunately failing to be attractive. Widening the face to how the EW face was modeled would restore the cheek plumpness and remove the gaunt/triangular oval shape.

2. Nose is dark at sides/much narrower in width. Takes away from face 2 softness/androgyny. Please lighten.

3. Lack of form shadow/cast shadow in eyes(from top eye lid especially + outer edges of eyes changed too much; they used to have a gentle slant downward). Lashes are way too short/thin and lose that 'doe eyed' look. Adding thicker lashes much like the female vieran counterpart could return the attractiveness of the eyes given the new lighting.

4. Lip option 4 (the smallest lips) are now quite wide and rival lip option 1. The top lip is also incredibly small and doesn't stretch across the mouth while the bottom one is very wide. They do not match up... It is more notable if side by side comparison from EW to DT. The corners of the mouth are also too dark and extends pass the actual lip.

5. Chin is much pointier and nose is longer in length, which makes the face look elongated. The rounded/flatter chin added to the unique look it had previously.

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The graphical update was well done in my opinion, it's just that there are some very obvious changes I'm not too fond of. More specifically the fact some faces appeared to have received more love and care in the update then less used faces. Almost to the point they look a tad unfinished.

It may in part have to do with the light looking different in game (again, in my opinion) as opposed to how characters look in character creation. Or, if we're to look a little further:
1) The updated normal maps reflect light off the mesh way too differently.
2) The diffuse maps are painted too harshly in some areas or lack any shading at all.
3) The face models being remade as a whole. While they are made to look almost exactly like the original, the 'copy' is never going to look 100% 1 to 1 with the originally, which will lose the 'feeling' the original had. To remedy that, it may be nice to just focus on the 'feel' the faces gave in the first place and make adjustments based off that, since again, it will never look like the original 1:1, so it's best to capture the key appeal. There can probably be a compromise found with the player base by doing that. ^^

[SturmChurro]

They really need to fix the quality of scales.

[asweetpotato]

Begging for a limbal ring glow toggle... I adjusted my au'ra's limbal rings to match the color it was previously, but at night or in darker places she looks like a completely different character because of the glow and its intensity.



(old pic has character lighting at 0, newer at 33)

[Stryd]

I think, to a certain extent, the new lighting is a big reason why characters look so different. Certain contours of the face becoming way more exaggerated, or far less emphasized. There's other issues for sure, depending on race/face/etc, but a common theme I keep seeing in this feedback is that characters look less "spirited" or "lively" than they did before, and I think characters expressions look more grim when any shadows are cast on their face at all. They took steps to fix this in the second iteration of the benchmark, but unfortunately the character creation menu doesn't really match 1 to 1 with any lighting in the game.

Does your character have bangs? Wear a brimmed hat? Suddenly their eyes look more sunken in, their lashes blur over their pupils, and their eyebrows are less contrasted to their skin. I posted it a few pages ago, my face1 female highlander definitely looks worse in game than in the dressing room, where there's no shading, or in the aesthetician/character creation menu, where the lighting is... just different, I guess? More direct sunlight? I was content with how she looked in the benchmark, only to be disappointed logging in that there's not really any lighting in game that resembles it, and as a result, she looks pretty tired and angry. (I think her eye shape, shape 1, is different than the original as well, but that's a slightly different topic.)

Don't really know where I'm going with this, I don't know enough about modeling or lighting to suggest any real solution besides "durr fix the normal maps or something, I dunno" but yeah. Hopefully it's something that can be addressed, even if it takes a while. Adjustments the lighting won't fix everyone's problems, but it would be a step in the right direction probably.

[Usabunny139005]

I tried to report this issue about it on the Japanese forum and I did my best to be kind and respectful but my post got deleted and I don't understand why and what said or did wrong.

I noticed on Dunesfolk and Plainsfolk face 1 that the inners of the eyelashes are not attached to the eye and I wanted to report this.

https://prnt.sc/tBCa97lrUcdY

Here you can see on the last benchmark the eyelashes are more attached.

https://prnt.sc/4gkyD5kKfmXj

I'm actually satisfied with my character even though she is a little different and Im glad they improved the eyes but I just really wanted to report about the eyelashes not being attached.

Sorry Im not sure how to upload photos

[Freyja_Hyskaris]

Hi, just adding my voice to the choir. I appreciate the work that went into the graphics overhaul and the new textures look amazing in the overworld. My main grievance are the significant changes made to the faces. I tried giving it a few days to see if I would warm up to my WOL's makeover but three days on and I still can barely bring myself to look at her in cutscenes.

I have three main issues with my WOL's new face: 1) Darkening of her upper eyelid to the point where she looks like she's in a perpetual ಠ_ಠ face, 2) complete lack of depth on the eyebrows, and 3) entirely new shape of lips and smile. Here's a before pic:



... and after pic (both taken on PS5--not sure why the antialiasing is so bad in gpose):



Her eyes were heavily shaded before, but there was still a softness to the irises that made her eyes bright and open. Without that softness, it just looks like her eyes are half-shut in every cutscene:



The lack of shading on her eyebrows makes them blend into her skin. It's visible everywhere but it's especially bad in low lighting. And her upper lip is shaped completely differently than the same set of lips pre-7.0. Instead of having a soft smile with a full upper lip, the combination of a differently shaped upper lip with only the corners turning up in a smile gives her a C: smile rather than a (:




All in all, she used to have such a soft, lovely face. I was prepared for some differences but this is such a drastic change and I feel the end results are much more severe than I was expecting. Different lighting/shaders giving different effects I could understand, but I'm not sure why an entire reshaping of certain facial features (like lips) was necessary. One last before pic for good measure:



Thanks for hearing me out. I really did try to give the graphics upgrade a fair shake but the faces just aren't sitting right with me.

[noumen0nn]

Hi, just adding my voice to the choir. I appreciate the work that went into the graphics overhaul and the new textures look amazing in the overworld. My main grievance are the significant changes made to the faces. I tried giving it a few days to see if I would warm up to my WOL's makeover but three days on and I still can barely bring myself to look at her in cutscenes.

I have three main issues with my WOL's new face: 1) Darkening of her upper eyelid to the point where she looks like she's in a perpetual ಠ_ಠ face, 2) complete lack of depth on the eyebrows, and 3) entirely new shape of lips and smile. Here's a before pic:



... and after pic (both taken on PS5--not sure why the antialiasing is so bad in gpose):



Her eyes were heavily shaded before, but there was still a softness to the irises that made her eyes bright and open. Without that softness, it just looks like her eyes are half-shut in every cutscene:



The lack of shading on her eyebrows makes them blend into her skin. It's visible everywhere but it's especially bad in low lighting. And her upper lip is shaped completely differently than the same set of lips pre-7.0. Instead of having a soft smile with a full upper lip, the combination of a differently shaped upper lip with only the corners turning up in a smile gives her a C: smile rather than a (:




All in all, she used to have such a soft, lovely face. I was prepared for some differences but this is such a drastic change and I feel the end results are much more severe than I was expecting. Different lighting/shaders giving different effects I could understand, but I'm not sure why an entire reshaping of certain facial features (like lips) was necessary. One last before pic for good measure:



Thanks for hearing me out. I really did try to give the graphics upgrade a fair shake but the faces just aren't sitting right with me.

You know what I'm noticing, looking at your photos? The cast-shadows on your eyes from your upper eyelids are still there, whereas a lot of races including midlanders have lost them, or had them lightened and blended so heavily that they essentially don't show up. I was ready to mourn them as a consequence of dynamic lighting, but clearly it's not an issue if the devs want them to still be there. Also, I agree with everything you've pointed out.