Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[SirShady]

Having played past the...

inevitable mid-story twist

I can easily say, don't believe all you read on the internet. Play for yourself before you let yourself be unduly influenced. Some of the things I was reading on this forum had me worried, but I'm glad to see this is perfectly in line with most Final Fantasy games.

Now, it's obvious to me that some either played a different game from the one I'm playing, or are simply distorting reality for the sake of painting Dawntrail in an undeservedly negative light, likely because their hatred for a single character makes them lose every semblance of nuance in their judgment.

Yes, the part where... LEVEL 87 SPOILERS!

the lizard enters an interdimensional portal that COINCIDENTALLY holds the weapons of mass destruction he needs to steal the throne because... Well because he's evil...

is the real turning point where the writing got good. Everyone that didn't think that part was a stroke of pure genius obviously is DISTORTING REALITY to not enjoy themselves.

Edit: Oh apparently I've reached the posting limit! I see your replies and will post my responses when I can!

[Abriael]

is the real turning point where the writing got good. Everyone that didn't think that part was a stroke of pure genius obviously is DISTORTING REALITY to not enjoy themselves.

I could pull the same trick you just did for literally every Final Fantasy game ever released and for every FFXIV (and FFXI) expansion so far.

It's incredibly easy to disingenuously oversimplify a story to make it sound worse than it is, and having seen your other posts, disingenuity for the sake of supporting a false point is indeed my probable explanation.

[SirShady]

I could pull the same trick you just did for literally every Final Fantasy game ever released and for every FFXIV (and FFXI) expansion so far. It's incredibly easy to disingenuously oversimplify a story to make it sound worse than it is, and having seen your other posts, disingenuity for the sake of supporting a false point is indeed my probable explanation.

Except nothing that I said was untrue. It is pure coincidence and the villain's motivations are exactly as I described. I'd love to be proven wrong. You just said anyone that doesn't share your enjoyment of the story is "DISTORTING REALITY" but I'm the disingenuous one? Ok, buddy.

Now, it's obvious to me that some either played a different game from the one I'm playing, or are simply distorting reality for the sake of painting Dawntrail in an undeservedly negative light...

Hyperbole has never been very suitable to make valid points.

Hyperbole much? Some people can hold opinions that are different from your own. Shocking, I know.

[Powercow]

Except nothing that I said was untrue. It is pure coincidence and the villain's motivations are exactly as I described. I'd love to be proven wrong.

What is your definition of coincidence? Because

Zoraal Ja isn't just guessing at where he can go get a massive amount of power and show up his father, he explicitly knows the Golden City can give him what he seeks. It's established very early on that there's a great power there. The evil vizier whispering in his ear made sure to mention it to him. It's also established that the great power isn't the giant death army, that was constructed after Sphene gave him control. Sure they had a handful of robots to act as servants and whanot, but the over-militarization of Alexandria came after. Multiple civilians in Solution Nine mention it. It's also been thirty years, and for a society that advanced, thirty years is plenty of time to manufacture a large army.

And his motivation isn't EEEeeEEeEEVILLL. It's that he's been under an immense amount of pressure since he was a baby, with massive expectations put upon him, and he's failed to live up to them. Unlike Bakool Ja Ja, though, he can't accept that he failed. So he goes further and further along a path to show that not only can he be as great as his father, but he can exceed him. He also feels like his father screwed him out of his legacy by favoring Wuk and Koana, thus he has a personal grudge against them. Especially Wuk since she actually succeeded where he could not. His biggest flaw was pride.

The only real issue I found with his character is his original motivation to go to war -- to unite the world in suffering so all people will work together is... a very dumb ideal that makes no real sense. I wish they'd have taken some of the "Wuk Lamat gets motion sickness again!" cutscenes and explored that a bit.

Edit - Oh you found my other post!

Good point!

This just raises more questions on why Zoraal of all people would know that! Why does he know about the key? What gave them the idea that there was a spare set of keystones laying around? Why did Zoraal know about shaping reality or what that entailed? If "shaping reality" didn't involve the power to summon a massive sci-fi army from out of nowhere, the villain would have been screwed and the MSQ would be over.

See, but I was hoping they would explain WHY he has daddy issues and an inferiority complex. In the same way I was expecting them to explain why he thinks causing war will lead to greater peace. They never explain why. He's just evil for the sake of it, and he's not anywhere close to being compelling about it like Zenos was.

I respect your points, but I still can't fathom the reasoning behind these writing choices.

The reason he knows so much is because

Sareel Ja was one of Gulool Ja's advisors, and he mentions very early on that he's eavesdropped (at some point in the past) on Gulool's closest advisors and knows things. Our Roegadyn explorer friend is one of Gulool's closest friends, so it's likely it was mentioned at some point. Lucky? Maybe, but it's not unreasonably so, and this plan sounds like it was long in the making. The only thing Sareel didn't count on was the sheer expedience in which Zoraal would dispose of the useless tool. And in Zoraal's defense, he's too smart to know that Sareel wasn't going to pull something; removing him early is definitely the correct move.

As for specifically reshaping reality, I think he was just being poetic there. Zoraal actually has no desire to shape reality or merge worlds or whatever, so he was likely just being grandiose in his moment of triumph. Dude knew there was some kind of power there, and he wanted it. His robot army can't literally reshape reality, but it can allow him to metaphorically do so by conquering the world.

And yeah I think a big part of the reason Zoraal's motivation is so meh and Zenos' is better is because we had so much more time with him. He's introduced in early Stormblood, pops up from time to time in Shadowbringers, and is all over Endwalker. Zoraal shows up for a fraction of that time, so it just fell flat.

[Powercow]

Yes, the part where...

the lizard enters an interdimensional portal that COINCIDENTLY holds the weapons of mass destruction he needs to steal the throne because... Well because he's evil...

is the real turning point where the writing got good. Everyone that didn't think that part was a stroke of pure genius obviously is DISTORTING REALITY to not enjoy themselves.

To be fair,

Zoraal does know the Golden City holds immense power to shape reality, as Sareel tells him much earlier. He's also certainly just aware of the potential given the lengths his father went to to seal off the Golden City, and the stories from the giants. So it's not exactly coincidental. Sphene also did say the tech was adapted to war after their agreement, so it's not like the death army was sitting there entirely. We're told many times there was a huge shift in production of war machines, and the 8-man raid was closed off to fuel Zoraal's war efforts. Plus it's been 30 years, that's a long time in a technologically advanced society.

As for him doing it because he's evil, we're shown he's got major daddy issues and a severe inferiority complex, which is only exacerbated when our team succeeds after he fails. Plus he has an... admittedly very stupid "peace for everyone by making everyone suffer" view on global politics. I do wish they went into where he got that idea beyond "well Tural was suffering from war, and then Dad stopped it, and now people are happy.. so 'War -> not war -> happiness'!" It's very dumb. They could have spent some time going into it but... they didn't. They might in the future but that doesn't solve the issue now.

Then yeah at the end his motivation, probably after 30 years of stewing in his own emotions, shifted to feeling like his father screwed him out of inheritance. Which is a pretty major shift to happen off-screen.

Edit - It's Sareel Ja, not Seraal Ja.