Dawntrail's mediatour dungeon was already cleared without healers.

[KisaiTenshi]

No, by YOUR definition, which is held by you- some people here are not healer mains. As someone who was also a healer main while cleric stance was available, I never had issues with myself nor a co-healer. Did some healers or or other jobs have an issue? I'm sure they did, however my feeling is that Square misconstrued some of the feedback that was received.

Yoshi-P mains a lalafell White Mage, it must have been devastating to learn that players don't want to play a healer as a healer. People completely misunderstood the point of cleric stance, and people misunderstood the point of turning tank stance off (Only the MT has tank stance on.) The way to fix both of those is to remove Cleric Stance from the dungeon kit, and to remove "Tank stance" as a toggle, but rather as a RPS (Rock Paper Scissors) at the beginning of the duty. Whoever wins, main tanks, and fights that feature tank swaps, automatically do the swap.

White Mage, in EVERY final fantasy is not a DPS. They are healers. If you have your white mage in FF 1-9 DPS, they do like single digits. You know what else FF1-9 did? not enforce the Tank-Healer-DPS trinity. Only 14 does this. Because if you didn't have a healer in other FF games, you spammed pots, heck a valid strategy was to just buy 99 of every healing item. You can not spam pots in 14. Pots are essentially unusable in combat.

I also find it very odd and overreaching that you would say that "no fight requires the healer to be contributing DPS". I very much doubt that this would hold up to close examination in all content.

Go ahead. Find a single duty in this game that requires the healer to even touch their DPS skills and can not be completed with just the DPS. All the healer doing DPS does is make up for entering with weaker DPS/undergeared. There are some fights that actually split the party, but those are not 4-player duties. The only plausible excuse I've ever heard from green DPS defenders is "current raid before acquiring all gear" which, again, that is not a requirement, that is just how people attempt to get over DPS time limits.

Finally, your "core argument" is also over-simplified in my view. A job can have more than one goal. YOU may have only one goal- that's fine, however I have multiple priorities and goals when I'm on a healer, that's what makes it interesting - which is why your last sentence- over the entirety of a fight- "If the fight is giving you room to DPS, then the fight lacks enough heal urgency." is out of place in this game.

You can have whatever goal you want, but all healers play exactly the same, and the "uninteresting play" is a consequence. The healers do not need more DPS kit because that just encourages healers to not heal at all. "I must use every button in my kit" is the way of the DPS. You have 1 AOE, 1 Dot, and one GCD cast. You do not need more. Remember Fluid Aura? How people would just use it because it's there and Tanks would scream bloody murder? That is completely misunderstanding that healer should decide on what to cast based on the situation, not "press every oGCD as soon as it's available". Fluid Aura was meant for pushing adds away from the healer, just like sleep/repose was meant for crowd control. Why does nobody use these? Because the DPS just spam their AOE's, making it useless.

Healers lost a lot of their utility, protect, stone skin, because players wouldn't start a fight until the healer used it. I want stuff like that to come back, but the reality is that healers just aren't allowed to play their job because too many in the community want this game to be like some other game that doesn't have healers, or lock classes to character types where they all need to have a DPS kit otherwise they can't do any of the content at all. Even this game, if Cleric stance didn't exist at release, no healer would have got past the MSQ, thus no healers would be available to the duty finder. If you could not DPS, you could not do the MSQ. The MSQ is entirely based around behaving like a DPS. The class/job quests do an absolutely poor job telling a healer how to heal, as they all turn into DPS fights.

Can you blame someone for wanting a "healer" job actually require the HEAL part? All these people gnashing their teeth and wanting more DPS, don't want a healer, they want a green DPS that does everything poorly.

[EvianYmir89]

Yoshi-P mains a lalafell White Mage, it must have been devastating to learn that players don't want to play a healer as a healer

What are you talking about? Yoshi P mains black mage.

[ThomasOfEger]

Good step to future for FFXIV ....it should be like that all the time. I hate wait 1 hour for que as dps meanwhile healer have 1 sec que...It would more people just jump into action and enjoy game. Of course it should not be like this for all content but for that "run once" content ...why not wich exactly means enjoy game and have fun without struggle.

[Supersnow845]

Good step to future for FFXIV ....it should be like that all the time. I hate wait 1 hour for que as dps meanwhile healer have 1 sec que...It would more people just jump into action and enjoy game. Of course it should not be like this for all content but for that "run once" content ...why not

Maybe you should……..you know………..play the rare role

Oh wait the healers are garbage and nobody wants to play them. Maybe that’s why the queues are so lopsided, delete the healers and the DPS will just wait for the tankxiety mains

[Zarkovitch]

It's design for peeps who doesnt have time to play 6-10 hours per day of ff14. Only 1-2 hours gamers. Dungeons are fine. If peeps goes crazy for dungeons then do harder content, aka extremes or savages. There be a timers,enrages and how to play good. Biggest issues with content is small party arent good enough to be rewarded. Like criterion, it's ass rewards but if try it's hella fun. SE need to fix that. I'll bet the game will be healthier or peeps complains about it.

[Colt47]

Well, the design is good for sales and expanding the target audience but it doesn't necessarily make for a better game. The main reason why it feels like the AAA industry is going to fall apart from any number of reasons is due to the live service model and a need to keep expanding the audience in order to avoid market saturation, while also keeping at least some players around to keep the money flowing and the servers running.

[ShariusTC]

claim helaer has no used while tons of PF still waiting for healer to join and roulette searching for healer everyday, lmao

[EusisLandale]

claim helaer has no used while tons of PF still waiting for healer to join and roulette searching for healer everyday, lmao

And yet if those PFs would just go 1T3D they'd get in without waiting and not notice anything different.

[Akonyl]

I think the fact that this media tour thing is so many peoples' first exposure to this shows how much of a nonissue it really is. Tanks have been solo clearing dungeons (and then taking dps along to make it faster) since shadowbringers at least, it's been like 5 years and if this is your first exposure, that just means it hasn't really affected you.

The issue with healing is that it just naturally depends on the competence/gear of your group, because worse players take more damage. If the game is balanced so healers in competent groups still have to heal a bunch, then the newbie players with less-skilled healers just won't be able to stay alive and clear content. If the game's balanced so those newbies can get by though, then the more skilled healers have less to do, which is the current problem. It's fine to say "well just tell those newbies to get good then" for harder content, but especially when it comes to such base-level content as dungeons, then you're just gonna lose a lot of would-be healers, along with gating groups' ability to clear based on the performance of a single player (which isn't really the case with any other role in casual 4-mans, since even a bad tank can typically be handled, and with no enrages dps don't matter).

We had a similar issue in p8s, where people had complained about healing being too easy, and so they made harder healing checks in that fight, so for p8s they tuned the healing up. That tier became pretty well known for it being hard to find healers in PF, because so many got exasperated with the difficulty and just left instead.

There's a certain streamer pair I watch (Grinding Gear) that's a tank/healer duo, they're currently in post-EW and they definitely run into healing issues and wipes in dungeons/normal trials occasionally. I don't think they're particularly terrible (but not great), and they came from WoW so they're not total MMO newbies, but I think in general a lot of people that are attached to this game forget just how long we've been playing this game compared to people like them. Sometimes people will go "I'm relatively new, I started with Shadowbringers, that was just last expac", but that was 5 years ago. That's a lot of time to get used to a game.

I'm not gonna speak on whether or not the current healer kits are actually *fun* or not, but I don't think that requiring more healing throughput is the solution people on the forums think it'll be. Maybe for them, personally, but I think that would just end up shifting the discussion instead of finishing it.

[Somnolence]

...

Catering to "newbies" at level cap sounds stupid. If they still play bad at max level this just means they just don't care or used a level skip.