Positionals vs Damage over Time

[Shurrikhan]

Can I instead pick True North for removal?

[wildvenonat]

I mostly play in forays, which has no positionals to start with, so that's my vote.

My ideal, however, is to get rid of Death's Design et al. It is unaesthetic for a boss to be covered in debuffs that are specific for one person and involve no damage over time effects, and actively annoying when you consider the buff cap.

[HikariKurosawa]

Unfathomably based

You're probably being sarcastic but it actually is. I prefer to focus on mechanics of the encounter and the flow of the rotation itself. I never found the positional part of the game to be engaging in an enjoyable way. It's either easy, messes up mechanics, or results in lost damage because the boss gets turned randomly or from a mechanic.

If more players just ignore positionals and don't use true north, they're more likely to remove them from certain if not all jobs. Maybe they can do something to make them feel worthwhile, but the amount of boss spinning that happens in hard content makes it just feel like a nuisance. There is no different animation or sound, there is no feedback at all, it just feels like a pointless optimization that gets in the way of encounter design.

well True North let's you ignore the skill's positional requirements but granting you the positional bonus damage^^
so True North may contribute to boost your damage^^

Sure, but 1) I play with damage numbers off, 2) I don't care about 40 potency enough to add another button to my rotation every 45 seconds at specific timings. If I am doing mechanics and my rotation properly, I am already contributing more than enough. Especially as dragoon where you only have 1 flank positional. I am missing 40 potency in 10 gcds, which is 2070 vs 2110. 1.9% potency lost. Big whoop. "It adds up!!!" that's fine. People will randomly parse me and I'll do slightly less better than people who are using addons like noclippy or alexander to cheat their parse at the top.

[Shurrikhan]

You're probably being sarcastic but it actually is. I prefer to focus on mechanics of the encounter and the flow of the rotation itself.

I can't imagine having such a low tolerance for cognitive load that I'd have to pick one or the other, but --if you're not trolling-- you do you I guess.

[Lyth]

Have you given any thought to maining WAR? It seems like the perfect match for what you're looking for.

[HikariKurosawa]

I can't imagine having such a low tolerance for cognitive load that I'd have to pick one or the other, but --if you're not trolling-- you do you I guess.

I play video games to have fun, I don't find positionals fun or rewarding in any way. Why would I do something I don't find enjoyable for a miniscule gain of 1.9% potency? I will do me, and you can do you. Some people are less submissive than others.

[SeverianLyonesse]

I actually agree with the general sentiment of this thread.

As much as I like the idea of positionals, in practice on most jobs it just amounts to alternating rear/flanking positions, a kind of mindless sliding left and right. Which kind of dilutes the job fantasy when everyone is doing it.

That's not to say that they ought to be totally removed. I just think that they don't add much when every melee DPS job uses them in the same senseless, flavorless manner.

Better things to do with positionals:

1. Tailor them to the particular job fantasy.
a. NIN should only have rear positionals.
b. I feel like DRG should only have flanking positionals.
c. IMO SAM should actually have only *front* positionals (if we are talking pure flavor and ignoring stacking on the butt in practice).
d. MNK and maybe VPR make more sense to have alternating positionals given how dynamic they are; maybe MNK should have front/flanking (direct combat) and VPR should have rear/flanking (hunting prey).
e. RPR just shouldn't have positionals at all, I think. The job fantasy doesn't really inform any positional playstyle, and I think it feels kind of fitting for the "Void" class to be "devoid" of positionals.

(viewed another way, we see kind of a "theme" emerge: Striking (honor/martial jobs) hits straight on (front), Scouting (assassin/hunters) hits from behind (rear), and Maiming (poking sticks) does neither.)

(Alternatively, as polearm users, DRG and RPR could have bonuses for being between 5-10 yalms away instead of front/flanking/rear bonuses. Even though imo that might create some confusion as to why Scouting gets Aiming accessories.)

2. Design encounters around different melee positioning, so different jobs have to solve the encounter differently. They already kind of do this anyway, so it would just take a little more intentionality I think.

[Aco505]

Yet another thread on positionals with non-melee mains arguing for their removal. Sometimes also melee mains do this as well, mind you, but the question that we must always ask ourselves is: would melee get something in return if positionals were removed?

The answer is no.

Positionals may not incur in great DPS gains/losses but they make playing melee jobs dynamic by having them move around at set times. They're "simpler" with dummy bosses that don't move but they're far from it on fights in which the bosses rotate or, worse, the tanks decide to rotate or move all the time for no reason.

The entire point of positionals is to hit them all, not most of them. If they were removed, melee would just be completely static until mechanics forced them to move.

Omnidirectional bosses are not always well designed (e.g. P7S, imho P12-2S) and positionals have never hindered fight design (e. g. P3S, P5S). One of the hardest duties for positionals this expansion was P11S, yet the fight itself was kinda mild.

[Bright-Flower]

Sams having front positionals would fit in flavor sure but would be a terrible idea in practice to incentive a dps to frequently pop up in front of the boss.

[RyuuZero]

If I am doing mechanics and my rotation properly, I am already contributing more than enough. Especially as dragoon where you only have 1 flank positional. I am missing 40 potency in 10 gcds, which is 2070 vs 2110. 1.9% potency lost. Big whoop. "It adds up!!!" that's fine. People will randomly parse me and I'll do slightly less better than people who are using addons like noclippy or alexander to cheat their parse at the top.

and I totally agree, I rather would do all the mechanics right and do the rotation instead of running around to hit the correct positional all the time, while I'm not opposed about positionals.. again why did they removed Positionals from Monk!?
why can't have the option for this positional depended playstyle?.. though.. speaking of Dragoon... remember Impaler? (or what that skill was called) from ARR? that Combo Opener that only combo'd if you hit the target from the rear?? xDD Now THAT! was a Positional! But yeah with True North Positionals feel like a relic from the past. at least for me