Did tanks really need more healing

[currentlemon]

To anyone that hasn't heard yet, DT's media tour dungeon was clearable without a Healer. It was done with Xeno's WAR.
https://youtu.be/VqBWp00XNZs?si=gyBDtNix6TxxXKn7

Can we get some nerfs to tank sustain please? Don't invalidate the Healer role in all but the high level content.

[Rithy255]

To anyone that hasn't heard yet, DT's media tour dungeon was clearable without a Healer. It was done with Xeno's WAR.
https://youtu.be/VqBWp00XNZs?si=gyBDtNix6TxxXKn7

Can we get some nerfs to tank sustain please? Don't invalidate the Healer role in all but the high level content.

Looks fairly easy to clear on other tanks aswell.

I don't think it's 100% sustain (for warrior it sure is, they need HEAVY sustain nerfs imo) But mitigation values and sustain being so high together causes tanks to be just absurd, I think base line defensive value needs to be hard nerfed a lot too.

[CasterSvarog]

To anyone that hasn't heard yet, DT's media tour dungeon was clearable without a Healer. It was done with Xeno's WAR.
https://youtu.be/VqBWp00XNZs?si=gyBDtNix6TxxXKn7

Can we get some nerfs to tank sustain please? Don't invalidate the Healer role in all but the high level content.

It's impressive that, in a DPS, Healer, Tank system, they've manage to completely invalidate an entire roles existence multiple times, if it wasn't so absurd. Honestly, I'd be embarrassed at this point, this is ridiculous and should fundamentally not happen

[Oizen]

Looks fairly easy to clear on other tanks aswell.

I don't think it's 100% sustain (for warrior it sure is, they need HEAVY sustain nerfs imo) But mitigation values and sustain being so high together causes tanks to be just absurd, I think base line defensive value needs to be hard nerfed a lot too.

You can clear 3DPS Dark Knight in dungeons now, the issue comes more from the fact DRK has no ally heal tools and thus any boss that casts a lot of raid wide damage will widdle down the dps, so you'll need to cover that with like a RDM or something.

It be pretty easy to limit this power just by focusing nerfs onto Nascent flash, Intervention Veil and Shake.

[CKNovel]

What good is focusing on healing design if the healing requirements is so low in the game. So badly that tanks have a lot of sustained healing and there is no need for us to really do anything? Look you want to give tanks healing, im all for it. Tanks in WoW had a lot of healing. But the incoming damage was much, much higher than what we see in FFXIV especially in dungeons.

But then the problem doesn't comes from the tanks and the question can be asked to the healer role as well.
What's the point of focusing on healers healing if the healing requirements is low?

The problem is not limited to dungeons but raid 24 and extreme. Seriously, raid 24 as Sage has been Dosis, Kerachole and res/Ixochole people who takes avoidable aoes.
XIV's casual content design is too casual, even if tanks or DPS had no healing the problem would remain the same.

It's not the sustain that needs a nerf, it's the incoming damages that needs a buff.

[Valence]

My healers really appreciated me being able to Holy Sheltron a DPS, which I think is really neat skill expression and part of the fantasy of being a Paladin and I wouldn't want to lose it. But I don't think my healing should be so strong I don't need a healer when I'm being attack by 12 mobs at once.

Imo all the tank signature cooldowns should have been on a power level at best close to TBN on themselves (remember when DRK was the best defensive tank due to TBN when other tanks didn't have things like that yet?), and get the actual overpowered heals and other effects when used on party members, but either way this would require encounters to have actual threatening prey mechanics back that could be blocked by things like TBN (way bigger shield on allies than self for example) or Cover/Sheltron. Tanks don't need those effects, but allies could need it with proper encounters to back it up, and make tanks feel like actual protectors of the party.

[Rithy255]

You can clear 3DPS Dark Knight in dungeons now, the issue comes more from the fact DRK has no ally heal tools and thus any boss that casts a lot of raid wide damage will widdle down the dps, so you'll need to cover that with like a RDM or something.

It be pretty easy to limit this power just by focusing nerfs onto Nascent flash, Intervention Veil and Shake.

I like ally heals on tanks.

I also don't think what you said was very accurate to the reality of things, I've had many instances where a solo Dark Knight and 2 dps (because a new healer gets wiped early), they're able to sustain themselves through it pretty well, aslong as you're playing a melee generally you have a lot of tools that you can personally use to keep yourself alive,, ranged/caster usually bring pretty good sustain tools in their own right, but DRK Can actually heavily contribute to your ally surviving through good TBN useage.

DRK's can still TBN a target which would save 25% of a targets HP same with Mitigation, Mitigation helps with party survivability on tanks as much as target healing, I think the reason why people get more upset over the fact that tanks can heal is because "that's what healers do!" despite healers having strong mitigations. (Design shouldn't be as basic as healer heal, tank mitigation and dps do damage though)

Target tank healing is Balanceable, I think the issue we come into is that right now in dungeons the incoming damage is way too low, even with lets say a DRK/Healer/2xDps, I feel like I'm barely even needing to heal on a healer, I can just throw out one cooldown once in a while if everyone isn't soaking vuns. I do think you have cases like Warrior where nascent flash healing is way way to much being a 1600 potency for you and your target, while also healing you shake it off also being stacked war being able to heal per enemy. I think PLD Does party healing in a more healthy way, the main issue i find with PLD is magic attack healing feels unengaging and just apart of your rotation, But other then that Holysheltron/intervention and divine veil I see is something that can be balanced around better fight design's that utilise more incoming AOE damage.

[Oizen]

Well I mean DPS with sustain tools do exist, and they seem to be being buffed into DT so I honestly dont know at this point

[Ramiee]

On the discussion of Tank support actions:

Having the odd tool to support someone else as a tank isn't a problem but I think healing should be rarer while the support is aligned to the tanks main gimmick of defending. Clemency on Paladin is the most balanced heal I think we can possibly get on a tank (mechanically wise at least) as you are sacrificing damage to heal someone else as well as MP. I think for the short oGCDs it should mostly be barriers and short defensive buffs. Something thats more in line with the fantasy of quickly defending a party member instead of healing them.
As for the long CD support moves I think healing can be invovled. For example, with Paladin I would take the healing effect off of Divine Veil and buff the barrier to 15% of hp and instead have Passage of Arms add a regen to anyone who takes damage under the effect of it (Like Clemency you are sacrificing damage and even movement.) I think healing should still primarily be the job of the healers but I don't think Tanks should only have selfish buffs (unless its part of a job identity and has something like higher dps to compensate.)

[Thrivaios]

Best part is when you get a rando tank who DOESN'T use their plethora of healing abilities so you can actually feel useful for once as a healer. /s

Well only mild /s. All you need to do is go into any x1 leveling dungeon (Holminster and Zot in particular) and you'll see the adventures you can have.