SE, the 7.0 BLM changes will not increase engagement. They are completely-pointless.

[HikariKurosawa]

Im sorry did non-standard existing force you into doing it?
We didn't point a gun to your head and say you have to play non-standard, there was no party finder conditions that said "BLM Non only" or anything like that. Only speedrunning or parsing raid groups would complain about you not doing the highest possible damage you can do and at that point its YOUR fault for surronding yourself with people who don't want you to play how you want to play. Im not a parser in fact I hate it and any record of my parses are recorded by other people and I infact played non-standard because I enjoyed having flexibity and adaptation in my rotation. So please explain to me why me losing my option to play the same Job as you in a different way effects you, when both ways are perfectly viable to do the most important thing clear the content.

What the hell are you even babbling about? I couldn't care less what others expect of me. I know that non-standard lines are more potency than standard lines, so I know that I am not bringing the full potential of the job if I play standard. This means I should play another job where I can bring the full potency or else I am sandbagging the team's performance. It's one thing if non-standard is what the devs want us to be doing and if they were to support that I would just continue as is and avoid the job because it's not what I want to be doing. Since they are clearly not supporting non-standard, I am excited because I am going to be able to play a job that really appeals to me in fantasy.

The job is just not as popular as it should be because people know that you have to do non-standard to bring full potential with it. Doesn't matter how much I want to spam fire 4 if I'm not willing to play the job optimally. I will always be second-rate and that's not appealing to me. I would rather play something else that is tailored to my preferences naturally, and now with the changes in dawntrail, blm is something that is tailored to my preferences naturally. It is still a really hard and demanding job because of how immobile you have to be to execute the standard rotation, but now standard is optimal so I won't be sandbagging the team's dps anymore.

Again, I don't care what others expect, I know what is optimal and it is non-standard. Why would I try to engage in a job that I know I will never play optimally? People don't complain, but they also don't celebrate your mediocrity as a standard blm player.

[Galvuu]

What the hell are you even babbling about? I couldn't care less what others expect of me. I know that non-standard lines are more potency than standard lines, so I know that I am not bringing the full potential of the job if I play standard.

(I'm pretty sure the reason why you're not "bringing the full potential", if that's truly the case, is uptime and has nothing to do with standard or non-standard, since non-standard is a 1.5%ish gain in most scenarios, but you do you. Just don't pretend that doing the standard rotation is a problem at all, or that it's "sandbagging the team"- most people won't even notice or care since you can do damage comparable to the top 10% BLM players just using strictly standard if you plan your Triple/proc usage around movement. You almost sound like you want to use this a scapegoat. The funny thing is, if you struggle with uptime, DT BLM will be much worse to play and your performance will drop even further)

[HikariKurosawa]

(I'm pretty sure the reason why you're not "bringing the full potential", if that's truly the case, is uptime and has nothing to do with standard or non-standard, since non-standard is a 1.5%ish gain in most scenarios, but you do you. Just don't pretend that doing the standard rotation is a problem at all, or that it's "sandbagging the team"- most people won't even notice or care since you can do damage comparable to the top 10% BLM players just using strictly standard if you plan your Triple/proc usage around movement. You almost sound like you want to use this a scapegoat. The funny thing is, if you struggle with uptime, DT BLM will be much worse to play and your performance will drop even further)

Do you think you sound intelligent in italics?

The whole thing is, I wouldn't play BLM at all let alone be good at it as is. The job designers probably feel it is a failure because people are obsessed with being optimal in these games and most games. BLM is a niche and that's a crying shame because it's a really fun job to play. If they supported non-standard I would continue to avoid it like the plague, now that they are making it standardized, I feel like it is worth engaging with. I guarantee you that way more people will play BLM after dawntrail changes come out.

Also.... What are you even on about with the uptime remark? I am talking about something objective that is unrelated to anything I've done. Non-standard rotations are more potency than standard. This is objectively true.

[Ramiee]

Doesn't matter how much I want to spam fire 4 if I'm not willing to play the job optimally. I will always be second-rate and that's not appealing to me. I would rather play something else that is tailored to my preferences naturally, and now with the changes in dawntrail, blm is something that is tailored to my preferences naturally. It is still a really hard and demanding job because of how immobile you have to be to execute the standard rotation, but now standard is optimal so I won't be sandbagging the team's dps anymore.

Again, I don't care what others expect, I know what is optimal and it is non-standard. Why would I try to engage in a job that I know I will never play optimally? People don't complain, but they also don't celebrate your mediocrity as a standard blm player.

So basically you don't like BLM. You liked BLM's look and Job fantasy but don't like how the Job has played since like Heavensward.
I don't like Samurai, I think the combos are boring, Kenki is boring and all the big attacks are flashy without substances and just seem ungabunga do damage to me. However I love the Samurai job fantasy and look. You know what I think about that?
Oh well, other people enjoy how Samurai plays there are so many other Jobs in the game for me to play I dont need to beg for it to conform to my preferences just because of how it looks. For someone who seems to care so much about being a teamplayer so much so that doing 8% less damage than people on a third party leaderboard makes you feel like you're sandbagging. (despite BLM standard rotation still being higher damage than most other DPS) You sure do want other people playing the game to lose their fun.

[HikariKurosawa]

So basically you don't like BLM. You liked BLM's look and Job fantasy but don't like how the Job has played since like Heavensward.
I don't like Samurai, I think the combos are boring, Kenki is boring and all the big attacks are flashy without substances and just seem ungabunga do damage to me. However I love the Samurai job fantasy and look. You know what I think about that?
Oh well, other people enjoy how Samurai plays there are so many other Jobs in the game for me to play I dont need to beg for it to conform to my preferences just because of how it looks. For someone who seems to care so much about being a teamplayer so much so that doing 8% less damage than people on a third party leaderboard makes you feel like you're sandbagging. (despite BLM standard rotation still being higher damage than most other DPS) You sure do want other people playing the game to lose their fun.

I didnt ask for them to change BLM, they changed it because it wasn't getting enough play. Now I celebrate the changes I didn't ask for because the devs knew what I wanted without any complaining.

[Sneakyotter]

Why would I try to engage in a job that I know I will never play optimally?

I doubt you have play anything optimally in all your play time.

[LilimoLimomo]

Why would I try to engage in a job that I know I will never play optimally?

This is a fair question, and I'll do my best to answer it in detail.

Assuming you're talking about players in general and not just yourself, the first thing to remember is that most FF14 players are casual. These players tend not to go on forums, tend not to watch guides, and tend to play at a "good enough" level. And broadly speaking, "good enough" is enough for them.

Unlike the average casual player, I do like pushing myself a bit further. I like thinking about the finer details of game systems and trying to optimize in some ways. But what matters to me more than my own skill level is fun; that's why I play this video game in my spare time, because I want to have fun. So while I do like to go a bit further than a casual player, at the end of the day, being "good enough" is good enough for me. And for me, BLM gives me the most fun.

Sure, I can play SMN where being optimal is a cakewalk, and I'll have an easier time with combat and do significantly more damage. And when I'm feeling low energy, I do that and it's fun. But most of the time, SMN can't engage me. It doesn't take long for me to get tired of its almost-entirely linear 2-minute rotation, and it's almost entirely instant-cast kit make me feel like my rotation is detached from the mechanics of the fight I'm playing.

BLM's non-linear structure keeps me engaged. I will never be as good with BLM as I am with SMN, but that's a small price to pay for fun. And every time I play BLM, I get to have fun. BLM presents me with challenges that make me think and react in ways that other classes don't. When I do pretty good with BLM, that is so much more satisfying to me than when I play a perfect game with SMN. I will never be optimal with BLM, but that's what makes it fun: every time I play, there will always be room to improve, I will always be able to play better than I have before. And that's engaging for me.

Of course, we all have personal preferences. If one of your preferences is to be able to play optimally, that's valid! If that's the case, then I'd just say that BLM won't be your cup of tea. Luckily, there are a plenty of other classes in the game where optimal play is a much more realistic prospect for your average go-getter. So I'd recommend those for you; BLM is for players who want something different than you. And that's the beauty of a class-based game like FF14: even though we want different experiences, we can all play the same game together.

[HikariKurosawa]

Of course, we all have personal preferences. If one of your preferences is to be able to play optimally, that's valid! If that's the case, then I'd just say that BLM won't be your cup of tea. Luckily, there are a plenty of other classes in the game where optimal play is a much more realistic prospect for your average go-getter. So I'd recommend those for you; BLM is for players who want something different than you. And that's the beauty of a class-based game like FF14: even though we want different experiences, we can all play the same game together.

That's the thing though, they made it so BLM does work optimally for everyone who cares enough to learn the job now and not just the people willing to research all the non-standard lines. At the end of the day, it was bad design and abuse of game mechanics. It's pointless to argue about it since it's gone. If you can't see why it was removed and isn't coming back, it's fine to keep throwing a fit on the forums. I'm not going to try to help you understand why your perspective is bad or wrong anymore.

I couldn't care less either way. If they keep non-standard in game, I will continue to avoid blm, if they remove it, I will engage with it and try to get good at it. BLM is for people who want to explode stuff with fire magic. The essence of the job is making sure you get out all your fire casts before enochian shuts down. That's all the identity of it is. It was never about non-standard and hopefully never will be again.

I'm not trying to argue either, I am just expressing why I think the changes are good and the logic behind them. I am enthusiastic about the changes because it makes me want to really get into the job. I couldn't care less about what was lost, and it's pointless to dwell in the past.

That said, I don't care if you don't move on. The world will move on regardless of whether you can cope with change or not.

[LilimoLimomo]

That's the thing though, they made it so BLM does work optimally for everyone who cares enough to learn the job now and not just the people willing to research all the non-standard lines. If you can't see why it was removed and isn't coming back, it's fine to keep throwing a fit on the forums. I'm not going to try to help you understand why your perspective is bad or wrong anymore.

With respect, you won't be able to convince anyone of anything if you don't actually listen to their perspectives. And your reply to me suggests that you're not actually listening to what I said, because you put a whole bunch of words in my mouth:

• I've played BLM since 2.0 and never even heard of the phrase "non-standard" until a few days ago, and I most certainly never researched them. I just play the game, and I enjoy what BLM has to offer.
  
  
• I haven't been throwing a fit on the forums; quite the opposite - I've been saying that overall the changes look interesting and that I'm eager to try them out.

If you want to genuinely engage with me, I'd appreciate it if you take this into account, take a few deep breaths, and give my previous post a re-read with a fresh head and a good faith attitude. Then we could probably have a productive discussion. I'll leave the ball in your court.

[Lyth]

...

From a job balance perspective, do you think that 'simple' and 'complex' jobs can co-exist in the same space?

At the end of the day, everyone wants to do more damage. That complexity label gets leveraged mid-expansion to argue for dps buffs, and Endwalker was no exception to this. You now have a massive sub-subrole Caster schism where BLM can't even be seen to associate with the others anymore. It's a fantastic feeling to play a job that is viewed as high-skill and you can invest your time into getting better over a few years, sure. It's deeply unsatisfying to try to do the same on a job whose aesthetics you prefer but the community dismisses as 'easy' (and in many cases, consensus doesn't automatically align with what's actually right).

The dev team knows this as well. When you argue for dps buffs on a 'complex job' mid-expansion, you'll get them, sure, in the short term. It's hard to change job design mid-expansion. But it creates a role imbalance. And what do you think subsequently happens when the dev team can actually change up job design during the expansion transition? You could have called this back in 2022. I did.

In an ideal world, job complexity is something that would exist internally within every job and reward you naturally as you became a better player. In an ideal world, nobody would try to argue for artificial dps advantages over other players, and differences in performance would unfold naturally from the layers upon layers of complexity built into every job. In practice, people are rarely satisfied with what they have and will look for ways to wrangle more of a competitive advantage against the others through terms like 'easy' and 'complex'. Which is why jobs go through cycles like this.

I'll also say that it looks like the dev team thankfully anticipated most of the 'that's so easy!' dismissals that get aimed at new jobs, this time around, probably because they wanted PCT to be a credible contender for BLM's spot.