With Activision and Bungies recent wins against cheat providers it is time SE's

[Doozer]

Automarker is literally botting

Didn't say it wasn't.

[Azureskies01]

People sue foreign companies regularly. This isn't new and there are ways to enforce it on a company such as SE. Class actions often lead to settlements and companies changing their practices. When a company choses to do business in a country, they have to follow local laws. And your 4th amendment is 100% irrelevant to this.

SE wouldn't sue a US company/person, in the US, based off of JP law, they would only be able to based off of US law. Which they can and would win now thanks to aimjunkies stupid counter suit against bungie. If SE wanted to sue a US company using JP law they would only be able to do so in JP and it would only effect the other companies goings on in JP. How is that hard to understand?... Everything you post makes zero sense so have fun talking to yourself.

[Saraide]

Why do people cheat for titan gaols after all? I was going to make a post defending AM and arguing that it's an unreasonable mechanic, but you can assign everyone numbers 1-7, have everyone create a corresponding macro that you press if you get gaol that puts your marker on your head, and then resolve it just like how it is done with AM already?

People would rather invalidate their entire run than take a minute to assign priorities and add a single button input macro to sort out a challenging mechanic without cheating? Why do we excuse this?

Two things:
Having 1 through 8 as markers is a recent thing, we didnt have that for the longest time.
In theory if you mark yourself as target to attack first you get 1, the next person gets 2 and so on. If two people do it at once however the game will simply eat one mark entirely.

You're free to make/join a static that doesnt use AM. Their experience often time isnt one of feeling accomplishment however for doing gaols without AM, instead it's a feeling of having wasted prog time on a badly designed mechanic. But by all means, try it out for yourself and then form an informed opinion about it.

[Jokerz_93]

I wonder what’s wrong with people.
How a FFXIV mod/plugin (which works client side meaning that it affects only the user who’s using it) can affect your gameplay?
Mh?

How does a zoom hack affect you?
How does ACT affect you?
(Please don’t answer with “by gating people out from parties, cuz I can gate you out without using ACT after one run of the first savage you want just by using my special powers, eyes and experience!!)
How does a dress mod affect you?
How does a generic cheat (used in pve content) affect you?

Just live and let go. Life is beautiful outside….well kinda.

About PvP…that’s more logical to be upset but c’mon and be realistic. XIV’s pvp it’s like RPing in an FPS…you can do it, but there are other games in which you can do it better.

About RMT.
It’s something that affects more SE business than yours. I think they know what’s the best course of actions to take.
Any SE’s lawyers and analysts here?
Everyone else, please stand in line.

Still, I don’t remember the latest PvP hacks and cheats that can damage others user’s experience (not saying there are not out there, ofc they are).
Any update?
So we can talk about something real with real names and not “TheCheats”.

Appreciate real facts to be put on the table.

Piece!!

[LianaThorne]

I wonder what’s wrong with people.
How a FFXIV mod/plugin (which works client side meaning that it affects only the user who’s using it) can affect your gameplay?
Mh?

How does a zoom hack affect you?
How does ACT affect you?
(Please don’t answer with “by gating people out from parties, cuz I can gate you out without using ACT after one run of the first savage you want just by using my special powers, eyes and experience!!)
How does a dress mod affect you?
How does a generic cheat (used in pve content) affect you?

Just live and let go. Life is beautiful outside….well kinda.

About PvP…that’s more logical to be upset but c’mon and be realistic. XIV’s pvp it’s like RPing in an FPS…you can do it, but there are other games in which you can do it better.

About RMT.
It’s something that affects more SE business than yours. I think they know what’s the best course of actions to take.
Any SE’s lawyers and analysts here?
Everyone else, please stand in line.

Still, I don’t remember the latest PvP hacks and cheats that can damage others user’s experience (not saying there are not out there, ofc they are).
Any update?
So we can talk about something real with real names and not “TheCheats”.

Appreciate real facts to be put on the table.

Piece!!

I can summarize the viewpoints I've seen:

1. Console players feel left out/excluded from mods & plugins due to console limitations and would rather them not exist.

2. People have issues with the venue scene and how sex oriented the game has come due to cosmetic mods to the point that roleplayers are excluding people on the basis of if they mod or not.

3. Plugins ultimately providing an unfair advantage in raid content since they provide information that normal vanilla players don't have. For example there is a plugin that puts a mark over any players head that needs an Esuna.

4. People using plugins or cheats in CC. Personally I got no idea about this one, I just play Frontline and know that the worst we get are pre-made DRK/AST parties lol.
-----

Ultimately I feel people are valid in their complaints because it isn't really hidden anymore in the community that people use 3rd party and some have taken it to the point of using them as a deciding factor of whether or not you can participate in content/activities. So, I can understand it affecting people, even if I don't personally feel as strongly about it as others do.

I also think it's two different things to exclude someone via plugin use vs. dps/whether or not you like them/etc (as you brought up). One is something that is completely unable to be attained by a portion of the community (console players) while the others, at least in the case of DPS, can be controlled/improved on. I don't agree with letting plugin use be the deciding factor in any matter tbh, it's just flat out unfair towards the playerbase that can't even use plugins if they wanted to.

[Graveyardprincess]

I can summarize the viewpoints I've seen:

1. Console players feel left out/excluded from mods & plugins due to console limitations and would rather them not exist.

2. People have issues with the venue scene and how sex oriented the game has come due to cosmetic mods to the point that roleplayers are excluding people on the basis of if they mod or not.

3. Plugins ultimately providing an unfair advantage in raid content since they provide information that normal vanilla players don't have. For example there is a plugin that puts a mark over any players head that needs an Esuna.

4. People using plugins or cheats in CC. Personally I got no idea about this one, I just play Frontline and know that the worst we get are pre-made DRK/AST parties lol.
-----

Ultimately I feel people are valid in their complaints because it isn't really hidden anymore in the community that people use 3rd party and some have taken it to the point of using them as a deciding factor of whether or not you can participate in content/activities. So, I can understand it affecting people, even if I don't personally feel as strongly about it as others do.

I also think it's two different things to exclude someone via plugin use vs. dps/whether or not you like them/etc (as you brought up). One is something that is completely unable to be attained by a portion of the community (console players) while the others, at least in the case of DPS, can be controlled/improved on. I don't agree with letting plugin use be the deciding factor in any matter tbh, it's just flat out unfair towards the playerbase that can't even use plugins if they wanted to.

1. can always get a pc and have them while on pc

2. the game will have sexual stuff regardless of it and vanilla ffxiv has plenty of things that screams it any and all mmorpgs will always be sexual by nature period
3. eh not a big deal

4 is about the only one i can agree on since thats an actrual cheat


It would be nice if games could just admit the fact that in alot of ways they design them around to be sexual because sex sells way better lol but they afraid to do it

[Merrigan]

You know what happens to you or anyone else when someone "invalidates" their run by using plugins? Literally nothing. Before you say this is me defending cheating and being a cheater and literally telling people to cheat because that's what it means when someone doesn't agree with you, I just don't think people should be so invested in whether someone cheats in PvE. Someone doing a challenging thing I did but with cheats so they never had to actually work for it does nothing to me or my own accomplishment.

Obviously things like botting and cheating (actual cheating, not using a cosmetic mod or something) are bad and shouldn't be in the game, but I really don't think some of the ways people cheat actually hurt anyone but the person doing it.

So I tend to agree with the gist of the message: the majority of mods don't change anything for other people. But when it comes to combat ‘aids’, that's another matter. The use of addons, or rather the widespread use of addons, can force developers to rethink combat mechanics.

Let's take dps meters. A tool that many of us use, and which isn't even ‘cheating’ in the strict sense of the word. But already a tool like this boosts the average level considerably. It offers very precise analysis tools, which will save players weeks of experimentation and exchanges with other players, and enable them to identify very quickly if there's a problem in their rotation. It saves time and makes the playerbase more efficient. And of course... Well, that has an impact on development time. A community without ACT won't necessarily kill bosses as quickly, so it might not be as quick to ask for new content to be released.

My point is that any external tool can have an impact if it becomes widespread. You have games that calibrate their combat by taking addons into account, because so many players use them that it becomes impossible to ignore them. So yes, it has an impact. But in the long term, on games where these ‘crutches’ have become commonplace. It's a bit more perverse than just saying ‘well, it's none of my business’.

[Merrigan]

the game will have sexual stuff regardless of it and vanilla ffxiv has plenty of things that screams it any and all mmorpgs will always be sexual by nature period

Double post, sorry: but just because there's always been Bobby, the Sunday erp enthusiast, doesn't mean that the use of mods won't attract other people too, who wouldn't be there otherwise.

[Doozer]

So I tend to agree with the gist of the message: the majority of mods don't change anything for other people. But when it comes to combat ‘aids’, that's another matter. The use of addons, or rather the widespread use of addons, can force developers to rethink combat mechanics.

Let's take dps meters. A tool that many of us use, and which isn't even ‘cheating’ in the strict sense of the word. But already a tool like this boosts the average level considerably. It offers very precise analysis tools, which will save players weeks of experimentation and exchanges with other players, and enable them to identify very quickly if there's a problem in their rotation. It saves time and makes the playerbase more efficient. And of course... Well, that has an impact on development time. A community without ACT won't necessarily kill bosses as quickly, so it might not be as quick to ask for new content to be released.

My point is that any external tool can have an impact if it becomes widespread. You have games that calibrate their combat by taking addons into account, because so many players use them that it becomes impossible to ignore them. So yes, it has an impact. But in the long term, on games where these ‘crutches’ have become commonplace. It's a bit more perverse than just saying ‘well, it's none of my business’.

I definitely don't disagree. Things like ACT can certainly alter the way content is approached and developed. I think that's a more complicated conversation to have that leans less into Cheating Is Bad and more about how certain plugins can impact the course of the game. The former being the current topic, with a knee-jerk reaction from the OP (and a few dedicated others) thinking all third-party software is cheating. Too many people have a scorched earth approach to mods that basically nuke the current problem and create a new one (chasing off players and possibly causing privacy issues).

[caffe_macchiato]

snip

Was this supposed to be ironic?

2. the game will have sexual stuff regardless of it and vanilla ffxiv has plenty of things that screams it any and all mmorpgs will always be sexual by nature period

This, like the previous quote, is the most Final Fantasy XIV-esque post I've seen in this whole thread. FFXIV is the most sex-oriented MMO on the market, and it's the only MMO with full sex toy integration. And people *deep breath*

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE THIS

But, I do have a sincere question. The community's rhetoric from 2013-2021 (before Dalamud integration) portrayed FFXIV as being a great MMO because of its content, story and quality. That is, it didn't need add-ons to be good. Are those days just seen as dystopian now? Like, if we returned to the "golden age" of FFXIV when this game was growing exponentially, would you all have a fit? Because all these posts seem to portray a modless FFXIV as some sort of nightmare. How did this game ever get popular if it didn't have your favorite third-party tools for most of its history?