Moon Miqo'te Face 4 feedback

[Moonsprite]

You initiated hostility out of literally nowhere, unprovoked, people called you out on your attitude then you cry wolf? You're not the victim here, conversely I don't think anyone is. You're just someone who started acting up for no reason, got called out, got really defensive about it. I don't think you can convince anyone that your behavior wasn't passive aggressive.

I was not having an Attitude. I was stating an actual fact. At the time of my posing on the subject on the length of the thread, the same four people were making half page long posts with enormous pictures. The fact is each one of these threads in its own way is a petition to the developers or anyone who will listen on some type of change or need they would like to be implemented. In order to decide the need for change a certain number of posts/likes is noted. Imagine getting a petition with 100 signatures and 90 of those signatures belong to the same 4 people. This doesn't mean the OP is wrong about how they feel or the changes they noticed, it is about whether or not the petition to revert those changes is felt by the majority. It does not appear to be the case.

I never targeted the OP in this thread in any way. I never invalidated or belittled their opinion or anyone else's. I gave my own opinion and stated the fact that it didn't seem that many people were upset with the changes. This, in turn, made people start attacking my character with saying things like "my intentions are ill, I'm here to make trouble, I have malicious intents, Inferring that I am a troll, I have a chip on my shoulder, my words are passive aggressive, I am disregarding other's opinions, that I am a lurker, and now I was attacking the OP, etc." These statements were and are directed at me. Why is it that me defending the attacks against my personal character are regarded as me playing a victim? Me standing up for myself and my opinion isn't me causing trouble or playing a victim, it's the opposite. I only stated a fact, that so far has not been disputed. I have not even once personally attacked anyone in this very short thread.

I disagree that my remarks are snide or dismissive. I was offering my opinion on the things that were mentioned in the thread and defending my character. Reread your own post as you are attacking my personal character because I defended myself and pointed out something that was true? How would you react if someone was saying all the things I mentioned above without provocation? Please reread my actual posts. They aren't passive aggressive or backhanded. I said "Let us see how many posts 4 people can get to" and I meant it directly. When I said the posts were half page long texts and enormous pictures, it was pretty direct. I did not, however, attack any one person directly, nor did I attack their opinions. I simply stated facts and had disagreeing opinions.

What I can gather from the very little activity in this thread, since I have been gone over a week or so, that (1) nothing new happened, (2) it's still the same few people petitioning, (3) the majority seem to either not care about the changes or actually like them, or (4) people are waiting to see what changes are made in the benchmark.

[Moonsprite]

Apart from feeling you having a chip on your shoulder I’ve said none of those things. I think what I said was pretty clear and straight forward. No one, including me, have said you aren’t allowed to like the changes. That’s part of the discussion and I even replied to you earlier in this same thread without invalidating your preference or telling you to leave or anything of the like. I’ve only critiqued your recent post where you’ve been calling the thread “misleading”, speculating that the information and images shared in here are without worth, and making passive aggressive and rude comments like this.



I don’t know how you can speak so undeniably rudely and passive aggressively like this and then pretend my response to it was about shutting down your opinion on the face changes. It’s pretty clear you’re not here in good faith any longer.

How is that statement rude in any way? I have over 2400 days subscribed to this game so I have a vested interest in what happens to my character. The fact is the people in this thread will keep replying and you will keep me and everyone else updated on the changes. How is bad on my part to say so? I even put a smiley at the end for good intentions.

Also to the person who said it was face paint issues and not clan marks, I apologize I misremembered your post. It wasn't intentional. I honestly tried to include all the feedback people gave in my list.

[Cheapshot]

I finally found time to add the texture and topology issues found in the course of this thread to the OP. I may clean that up later but for now I simply quoted the relevant posts there. I also moved my personal opinion to the second post to let the OP stand on its own and just show what's changed. The developers can decide for themselves what needs to change, and my personal opinion on the matter is now an optional read. Let me know if I missed adding anything to the OP.

[snip]

Please stop. You were rude and everyone pointed it out and everyone said their peace. I also don't understand why you're replying a second time to a post of mine you already replied to! I already responded! I thought things had moved on but you're back and continuing to derail the thread with drama. We've covered pretty much all there is to cover about the face changes, and we all would just like to move on and focus on waiting to see what changes happen. Please don't bump this thread for something like this.

[Rueby]

That was me. Using shapekeys for facial features could in theory allow that. I was realistic though and said we shouldn't expect it. Maybe some day. Unless their animation system prevents it for some reason.

Oh yeah I remember talking about this with you but I think I saw a post prior to that on another thread, that was what I was referring to which was the first time I saw it!

I've been inhaling copium for alot of things since EW's end, here's another thing to the list. I'm kinda curious about the new benchmark that we'll get by the end of the month, abit apprehensive, but yeah guess we'll wait and see. I think we've compiled everything and your first post is rather thorough so I appreciate that alot!

[Cheapshot]

Resurrecting this thread since we got the new benchmark today and now we can discuss what they've changed and what they haven't. Remember, we're excluding discussions of lighting in here, but I will say that the improvements to the lighting are fantastic.Well done!

First off, I'd like to say I'm happy to see so much addressed in such a short time. I want to express my endless appreciation for the developers. They work very hard and it's nice that a lot of our feedback was considered and acted upon. Now, lets take a look at what changed in relation to what has been discussed in this thread.

Things that have changed:

-Significant reworking of the eyes. The eyelashes have been given a higher resolution and finer, more natural texture. They've been scaled back down to a more realistic thickness. Some may miss the last benchmarks thick mascara look, but this is now much more in line with the original feel. It's now a balance between the original look and the look of the previous benchmarks version


-The lid area has been cleaned up significantly and no longer has the strange vertical lines/edges. Lash texture bleed is cleaned up as well, with only a minor and honestly un-bothersome amount still present at either outer corner. S tier work. Zero complaints here


-Brows have been darkened. This is a welcome correction that matches the original looks better

-Chompers restored. I'm sure this will be a highly celebrated change. Fangs are now better shaped and longer. They look fantastic in my opinion


-I no longer see the faint line on the tip of the nose which the sharp eyed Neviklink caught previously


-Ear fur texture resolution now matches the quality of the rest of the hair

-Face details now have proper resolution

-Subtle improvements to lip detail depth

-Eyes have a slight grey haze to them now in the updated benchmark I'm assuming this was unintentional.

(Let me know what other changes I've missed for Miqo'te faces)

Splitting this post into two

[Cheapshot]

Things that have not yet changed:

-I don't see any corrections to nose or lip shape yet

I'm surprised to see no changes to the mouth since I swore there was some reference to their scaling or somesuch in the previous statements ahead of the updated benchmark. I didn't notice any shape change in the CC and I didn't notice any difference in facial expression and mouth scaling in the benchmark footage either. Perhaps those changes are due later?

-Lip gap still missing from face 4. I personally very very desperately want this feature re-added


-The facepaint misalignment pointed out by Celestiyall doesn't seem to be corrected, but I'll have to wait and see if they can confirm that

-Unsure if this is a final texture? I've noticed some have a lot of horizontal banding, almost looking like retro scan-lines.


Edit: I have just been informed that the below issue is currently in the live game, not just the benchmark. Miqo'te hair has wide gaps between the hair and the scalp, and it might be more noticeable with the head mesh slimmer/smaller now



That's a summary of my observations so far! Sorry if I missed anything or wasn't detailed enough. I've been pretty tired. Overall I'm very optimistic about whats been improved so far! I hope we see more adjustments later on, and I'll keep an eye out for them. Great work devs!

[Fenefab]

Made a thread about this already but please for the love of Hydaelyn let face 4 keep the lip gap. I feel like the miqo'te faces in general resemble eachother a little too much in the updated version of the benchmark? It's like they took all the unique features of each face and watered them down so much.

[TheCat]

Made a thread about this already but please for the love of Hydaelyn let face 4 keep the lip gap in mouth option 2. I feel like the miqo'te faces in general resemble eachother a little too much in the updated version of the benchmark? It's like they took all the unique features of each face and watered them down so much.

For the record, ALL mouths in female miqo face 4 used to have that gap, not just mouth 2. So it needs to be restored to ALL of them.

I, too, am gutted how they've been removing/toning down unique defining features left and right and made characters samey and boring in the process.

[Skivvy]

Agree 100% with you, OP!

Looking at your pictures, I think we use the same eyes, nose & mouth, only I play as a sunseeker, and you hit the nail on the head with all your points. This especially for me:

The reason I like this face is because it allows for a less "dolled up" or conventionally pretty character. This face has been the refuge of tomboys or feisty heroes. There are plenty of pretty faces to choose from, and this one I picked because I preferred less makeup, less feminine. I don't think we should be moving toward making every Miqo'te have the same look and feel. Overall I feel the changes have made the face look less interesting. More feminine for no reason, as well as less natural. There's less personality, or at least not the same personality. I don't feel like these changes are an improvement. Many of them seem to be in the service of making the features more feminine or more generic instead of just higher quality. The little gap between the lips, the wispy darker brows, the button nose and the thin more natural eyelashes really make her whole appearance shine. Without those, I just don't feel like she's the same character.

I know a lot of people think we're all crazy for obsessing over small details, but the smallest of details can make a big difference when it comes to a face.


~~~~~
adding some pictures, visuals are fun!

Endwalker:


Benchmark 1.1:

[HeyMcFly]

Give Miqo faces their lip gap back!

And pls fix lalafell lips as well- give them back their fullness