With Activision and Bungies recent wins against cheat providers it is time SE's

[Menriq]

There's a huge difference between using addons that hook into a framework added and supported by a game's developers, and unofficial third party tools that work through memory injection. With a supported addon framework developers can pick and choose what players are and are not allowed to modify within the game's client, where as unsupported third party tools basically have no such limit and can allow players do to things that entirely trivialize or outright automate gameplay.

Blizzard has in the past, on multiple occasions over the years, actually reigned in the amount of functionality supported by their addon framework because creative individuals were able to make addons that circumvented too much of regular gameplay.

I'm not disputing that in the least. The message I replied to indicated they don't rely on the third party tools. Correct my if I'm wrong, but addons are third party tools correct?

[HikariKurosawa]

I always find it funny how people are afraid of a company like square enix implementing an anti-cheat with "kernel access", yet go on to install third party addons from sketchy sources that could be doing all sorts of questionable things with your computers. It's just a desperate defense at cheating at the end of the day because it's so inanely hypocritical that it doesn't make sense.

There's no company as big as square enix that is going to do anything nefarious with your privacy or whatever weird concerns you have just because they have kernel access. Stop the cope.

[Kuroka]

I always find it funny how people are afraid of a company like square enix implementing an anti-cheat with "kernel access", yet go on to install third party addons from sketchy sources that could be doing all sorts of questionable things with your computers. It's just a desperate defense at cheating at the end of the day because it's so inanely hypocritical that it doesn't make sense.

There's no company as big as square enix that is going to do anything nefarious with your privacy or whatever weird concerns you have just because they have kernel access. Stop the cope.

^This is so true. Like ok i get it with google or MS, but they dont sell data - at least not yet and would not gain anything from it.

[Xylira]

I'm not disputing that in the least. The message I replied to indicated they don't rely on the third party tools. Correct my if I'm wrong, but addons are third party tools correct?

An addon tends to refer to a client modification that explicitly uses an addon framework built into a game's client. A third party tool is something that acts entirely outside of a game client but can modify the way it behaves, usually through memory injection.

[Menriq]

An addon tends to refer to a client modification that explicitly uses an addon framework built into a game's client. A third party tool is something that acts entirely outside of a game client but can modify the way it behaves, usually through memory injection.

Ok, last questions. Can you point me to Blizzard's addon repository? I'm having trouble finding it. Looks like I have to go to third party sites to download them. Also, for these addons, I'm not seeing any Blizzard developed ones. I'm curious if they are being developed by third parties?

[Xylira]

Ok, last questions. Can you point me to Blizzard's addon repository? I'm having trouble finding it. Looks like I have to go to third party sites to download them. Also, for these addons, I'm not seeing any Blizzard developed ones. I'm curious if they are being developed by third parties?

Being developed or hosted by a third party does not make it a third party tool. An addon in of itself is nothing more than a package of script that hooks into an API created by the developers specifically to allow for minor tweaks to a game client. Addons can and often are created by third parties, but they can only ever achieve changes that fall within what the game's developers allow. If an addon manages to do something outside of what is expected by the developers, the functionality is usually very quickly patched out of the addon API to prevent that behavior from occurring going forward.

You're arguing semantics, but the distinction has always been that third party tools override the intended behavior of the game client in ways not supported or condoned by developers, where as client addons do not.

[Menriq]

Being developed or hosted by a third party does not make it a third party tool. An addon in of itself is nothing more than a package of script that hooks into an API created by the developers specifically to allow for minor tweaks to a game client. Addons can and often are created by third parties, but they can only ever achieve changes that fall within what the game's developers allow. If an addon manages to do something outside of what is expected by the developers, the functionality is usually very quickly patched out of the addon API to prevent that behavior from occurring going forward.

You're arguing semantics, but the distinction has always been that third party tools override the intended behavior of the game client in ways not supported or condoned by developers, where as client addons do not.

Normally, I would agree it's arguing semantics. However, when you add the following context

Right, except there's one small problem. Third-party tools aren't FFXIV. They're things that you use because you don't like the game as-is. I don't need to use illegal third-party tools. You do.

you can certainly get the picture that this person would not be happy even if addons were added. Therefore, the crux of the argument is that the most popular MMO explicitly allows you to modify the game as-is, which refutes their statement about people wanting games without relying on third party tools. If I'm wrong about their opinion that they would be happy if SE added in an addon framework, then I will gladly admit I was wrong.

[Graveyardprincess]

Never using any of those programs in the first place is key. I always advocated towards anti-cheats and anything that prevents making almost every achievement in the game worthless. So YES, get rid of this stuff!

act kind of helps making achievements helps you realize if you are preforming to the best of your ability since se refuses to add in an actual dps measurement.. beside mods are honestly innocent. If you want to deal with things not having achievement issue it isn't programs and mods fault. Its square enix and player base fault dumbing down things to afraid of telling people "if you don't like this you don't have to play the job" like Ast being rng based was fine. What the real problem is this pointless fear "of toxic is bad" which brings more harm than good. SE keeps dumbing down jobs to a point a monkey could play them.

Maybe If we held ppl accountable based on their performances we might get some big brain power job play

[Xylira]

Normally, I would agree it's arguing semantics. However, when you add the following context
you can certainly get the picture that this person would not be happy even if addons were added. Therefore, the crux of the argument is that the most popular MMO explicitly allows you to modify the game as-is, which refutes their statement about people wanting games without relying on third party tools. If I'm wrong about their opinion that they would be happy if SE added in an addon framework, then I will gladly admit I was wrong.

I don't want to put words in their mouth, but they did specifically say "illegal third-party tools". The word "illegal" being pretty important as it implies client modifications that the developers do not support nor condone the use of. If the devs developed an addon API into the game, then any addons that work through said API would not fall under an "illegal third-party" categorization as they would fall within the boundaries of which modifications to the game client the developers want to allow.

I'll keep repeating it because I apparently have to, but there is a very big difference between minor client tweaks that addon APIs allow, and the potential game breaking modifications third party tools are capable of.

[Absurdity]

There's no company as big as square enix that is going to do anything nefarious with your privacy or whatever weird concerns you have just because they have kernel access. Stop the cope.

I'm starting to wonder if you live in some kind of dream world that is detached from reality.

^This is so true. Like ok i get it with google or MS, but they dont sell data - at least not yet and would not gain anything from it.

Nobody gives a shit about them selling your data. The danger with kernel-level anti cheat is that it provides a potential angle of attack for hackers with easy access to your entire system.
We've seen it just this year with Apex Legends, where hackers were able to run cheat programs on participants' clients in an official tournament. And that's a mild exploit compared to what they could do with ring 0 access.