Crazy Idea: Split SCH from ARC and make it a 30+ job like HW

[Supersnow845]

That's just your basless assumption. The fact you've only said that without further elaboration only makes it clearer.


Honestly, these pharagraphs give me the impression than rather than being me who is forcing my version on others it's actually you and the catboy above who are hellbent in claiming your version as the objectively right one. And neither is.

It's just the current version hinges more on flashy apparitions than being a pet, like it or hate it. And if there's ONE common point among all FF summons, barring FF11, (even in FF14 because, let's face it, the primals themselves are the actual summons, the summoners canonically only handle the lite versions, regardless of the duration) is that they are ALWAYS flashy. Whether it's being an avatar or an AoE spell, it was never a flimsy thingy. And if you don't like it, you're welcome not to. But don't pretend it's YOUR version that's right when there is nothing that backs you up.

I never claimed my vision as the right one, I said when I think of SMN I don’t think raidwide AOE then elemental mage and you came in and said “acshooly 14 panders to old FF games and that’s what old SMN’s were”

I don’t really particularly care what old FF SMN’s were. The job quests of SMN before they got changed justified why we couldn’t summon primals but could summon Demi’s, the primal upgrade at 90 messes with that lore. The allagen roots of the job explain the poison DOT’s, modern SMN doesn’t have DOT’s and doesn’t have a reason to still have a skill called “fester” considering that relied on poison DOT’s. Modern SMN doesn’t justify using carbuncle as a foundation for your summons, it’s just a holdover from ACN. Old SMN justified the ability to have 1 demi always out and SCH justifies lily

I don’t like modern SMN but that was never my point, my point was that SCH feels more like a SMN to me because the idea you are actively controlling your summon to generate advantage to yourself including positioning, controlled desummoning and temporary upgrades feels more like a SMN than whatever modern SMN is doing and i don’t care which side of the design of the many FF games you use to attempt to justify either side. The modern SMN job quests make little to no sense, the flow on from ACN makes little sense and the job doesn’t feel like a SMN to me, I feel like an elemental mage. However that’s my opinion, nowhere did I say you have to think that way. I didnt even particularly like Old SMN either, my entire point centred on the fact that active control over lily makes SCH feel more like a summoning job

[BokoToloko]

snip

Usually, when you say something is your opinion, you make it clear that it IS so. You did not. You can trace back to your own comments and you will see that stated very bluntly "X" is "X", which is usually what people do when stating objective facts, not opinions. Even less when you're trying to refute me with them.

But, you know what? Even if we limited ourselves to just FF14 (which, duuh, is called a Final Fantasy, not Trials of Mana, not Baldur's Gate; and yes, previous games DO matter because the set up conventions for the whole franchise that the company WILL follow and the fans WILL expect), your opinion would STILL not hold up to further scrutiny.

The poison DoT had NOTHING to do with Allagan lore. They were unrelatedly drawn from Arcanist lore which, itself, draws the art of arcanima from the Southern Seas, namely Aloalo. And if you played that Variant dungeon, you would quickly noticed that it had at least 2 boss with an interestingly close aesthetic to Scholars, not to Summoners. Summoner lore literally began by slapping the summons on a promising Arcanist (the WoL). Summoners, from the start, were Arcanist and Summoners, not just one class/job.

But if you want to discuss things that aren't explained... be thorough about it. Begin not with Endwalker. Begin with Stormblood where we, somehow, manage to summon Demi-Bahamut after being told in Heavensward we couldn't summon more Egis, let alone a boosted version called Demi of one of the most powerful primals to ever exist, because we just didn't have the aetheric capacity (lore speak for: "nuh-huh, no more summons"). And, obviously, you'll also have to decry Demi-Phoenix too. And if your answer to that is "we got stronger", why can't we get stronger to evolve the Egi into Demi versions?

And what SMN lore and gameplays DID entail was attuning yourself (Trance) to primals essences (which would also mean attuning to their element, too, in case you missed it) or call forth watered down versions, aka Egis. In other words, they were Primalmancers and, yes, since the primals we did attune had element linked to, that would "make us Elemental Mages" (which is as absurd to deride as it is to say "Ninjas are just elemental mages, duh"). And the fact you even say Scholars are closer to be summoners just betray your utter lack of knowledge, as the fairies are literal familiars with a conscience on their own and had nothing to do with Primals, which was pretty much all summoning boiled down to, with room for both gameplay versions.

Let me spare you the trouble and I'll spell your actual thoughts in a simple phrase: "I want a pet job". Period. It's that simple.

Wait so it is wrong to contest the removal of a mechanic that drew you into playing the job, in the fist place? If it didn't start off as one, i will not give any time or attention. Other people will. So telling me that my version is right is wrong because my argument is rooted to the job's history. Let's see what happens if let's say they decided GNB to be the next job to be braindead. Let's see how GNB mains will react? Quite sure it won't be pretty.

If you did this about the mechanics and how braindead it is, which a fair point, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And you did not make it just about gameplay being braindead. And I would rather they actually polished what we got now into an actually engaging job rather than just retrace steps only to trip with old problems again because, newsflash, they're just unable to make a satisfactory pet gameplay or a DoT gameplay (DoT mechanics will always be dead on arrival until SE takes a page from WoW again).