Jobs feel pretty much complete with Dawntrail no?

[Asari5]

you will need to rephrase your question for me as i am not sure what is being said here.

i will give a couple answers hoping they hit the question though.

1 no max lvl would now be 60 it would just restart the expansion lvling cycle.

2 the idea isnt to give you 100% of the skills ever but with a lvl squish you wouldnt just lose every skill we have now for no reason it would just be put into the lvl we are reverted to with the squish which i would say 50.

i am struggling to imagine what that means for the overall game. there seems to be something i'm missing.
you mean we would finish EW on lvl 50 and DT would be 51-60?

[HikariKurosawa]

What do you guys want for me to like agree with or deeply consider your takes when I know I don't agree with them? Like what are you crying that someone disagrees with you? I couldn't care less about you thinking my takes are invalid, just what kind of response do you expect when you express something I don't think is even worthy of consideration?

If you're so insecure that you can't handle your perspective being rejected by another individual's perspective, maybe you should take your own advice and stay off the forums??

I'm fine with disagreements, that's the nature of discourse on subjective matters such as all of the ones I've engaged in.

If we can only agree to disagree, that's the extent of our engagements. There is no truth to any of this since it's all subjective. We all want something a little different and that's fine. Get used to it.

Well if we use, say, Warrior for example, they can slowly add to the Primal Rend combo like with Blade of Faith on Paladin.

But you're right it often has just been animation/upgrades since the uprade system was added and probably will continue to be. But sometimes the trait upgrades do make the job a bit different or more busy.
No, I think they want to make it feel like you're progressing at each level. As long as we have new levels we'll have new actions.

However, it remains in question if we will have more levels because Yoshi-P has mentioned how they will need to ponder what to do about the future with how high our level has got and I think he also mentioned horizontal progression before. That doesn't mean he'll go for it, but I think it is part of pondering what to do now and I think we as players are starting to ponder it as well.
Well that's new. Most people here keep saying that the combat system has got simpler and less busy and you see it a different way. I personally think it used to be busy in a different way (tracking things) while now it's more busy in the sense of pressing OGCDs but not necessarily difficult. And some jobs remain heavy in the area of tracking things but I am not so sure this will last into Dawntrail.

Yeah that's true especially with the button consolidation feature they're adding.

I think there is just a lot of potential to upgrade existing skills into more modern ones. True thrust upgrading into raiden thrust feels amazing for example.

I also think that a new job could fill the niche of leaning heavily into the design of tracking things rather than pressing ogcds. We have bard which is actually extremely heavy on tracking timers and dots, but they could take that concept even further with new jobs. I would say that every expansion has made the jobs more difficult to execute definitely though. I don't play this game as heavily as many people so I have pretty poor job mechanics, but this enables me to see things more clearly because it's like the perspective of a noob. Someone who is grinding the game all the time will have it all down to muscle memory but for me none of the jobs play like that. I do understand how a lot of the jobs are played and it is honestly a lot to keep on top of. Avoiding drift is actually very hard if you are not very experienced. I play the game a lot and practice rotations a lot yet still struggle. The idea that things are easy just seems a bit out of touch to me. It's easy to downplay the difficulty of something when you've done it for hundreds if not thousands of hours though so I don't blame anyone.

[Musashidon]

i am struggling to imagine what that means for the overall game.
you mean we would finish EW on lvl 50 and DT would be 51-60?

no as we would be talking about 8.0 making it lvl 51-60 just do a story split and dont make the old expansions mandatory anymore.

[Chocochic]

Why should people be so negative and selfish?

You have to be arguing in bad faith, because the alternative is that you have such cognitive dissonance that you don't see anything you type as negative and selfish, when you stated things as:

So they're making black mage at the top level play like it should: Maximum amount of explosions, and actually casting ice spells to recover mana.

Good changes. Non-standard being meta was a mess.

So much crying and maladaptive behavior hahahahaha. Oh no you won't be able to do non-standard rotations to optimize your parse and feel like you're a better player than people who don't play non-standard.

This is being negative to players that enjoy to use non-standard rotations to optimize their gameplay, getting more movement, or to place more damage within a burst window, and you're mocking them for enjoying something that doesn't even affect the standard player, because they're able to keep doing standard without failing; standard is just how most players play, that doesn't mean non-standard players should lose options and be forced to do standard play, and they shouldn't epically be mocked because they disagree with your idea of how the game should be.

Nah I don't like managing the eye. It is a feels bad mechanic to not go into LotD when I could.

Sounds way too complex to me, good thing it is being removed so everyone can strive to play their job to the fullest instead of just 0.0001% of the playerbase.

This is you, being selfish as well. You don't like it, so it should be completely removed and it doesn't matter how anyone else feels about the changes. If you like them, that warrants their changes, regardless if others completely disagree or not. I don't know how you're going to call out another play for being negative and selfish, and being contrarian, when you have gone into threads you don't agree with, and just argue for the sake of argument. You actually care about discussion, you want people to agree with you, and it's weird how you'll mock others, then get mad at a person who talks reasonably and disagrees with you. You typed all of this, and yet you'll talk about other people causing harm. This has to be in bad faith, because I refuse to believe that you see yourself acting like this righteous and correct, but honest disagreement as toxic. I really don't get it.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Do you read your OWN posts before you send them? Do you not see how you talk to other people?[...]

[...]You wrote this! You were never interested in having polite discourse, you were interested in kicking people who weren't enjoying things, because all you do is rag on people who are saying "yeah, not the biggest fan of *insert change here*, here's my feedback"

I'm not even like, arguing against your points or anything. I'm a tank/healer main, so I already know my opinions don't matter. I just think you're mean.

Exactly my thought. If anybody curious, they can do post history check that amounts to no longer than 5 minutes & will start seeing a common thread lol.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Healers don't feel particularly finished... Although I can't really speak for AST with it's changes...

But WHM, we're getting more ways to avoid casting heals and an attack we can use once every 2 minutes.

[Supersnow845]

Healers don't feel particularly finished... Although I can't really speak for AST with it's changes...

But WHM, we're getting more ways to avoid casting heals and an attack we can use once every 2 minutes.

Healers don’t feel finished because they never started

They have been trying to built off a flawed foundation since ShB and we can all see it isn’t going anywhere

[Saraide]

Healers don’t feel finished because they never started

They have been trying to built off a flawed foundation since ShB and we can all see it isn’t going anywhere

It's frustrating because healing can genuinely be fun. I remember playing medic in Killing floor 2 and it was a blast because it managed to balance healing and damage in a really cool way with even really simple mechanics.

[CaptainLagbeard]

It's frustrating because healing can genuinely be fun. I remember playing medic in Killing floor 2 and it was a blast because it managed to balance healing and damage in a really cool way with even really simple mechanics.

Yea being a healer doesn't need to be just constantly healing everyone as they take damage, and FFXIV does recognize that. They even have ways oGCD heals to minimize the amount of time you spend just casting heals... But they stubbornly refuse to provide anything else to the class to do.
SCH probably currently is the best designed healer class, if for no other reason than having Energy Drain. It does barely anything being a 100 potency attack, but it's a way to spend your excess Aetherflows without overhealing. WHM has to waste lilies to overheal get Afflatus Misery, SGE has to overheal to get their MP back.
There is just no positive way to engage with these job mechanics, and they refuse to fix that.

[Supersnow845]

Yea being a healer doesn't need to be just constantly healing everyone as they take damage, and FFXIV does recognize that. They even have ways oGCD heals to minimize the amount of time you spend just casting heals... But they stubbornly refuse to provide anything else to the class to do.
SCH probably currently is the best designed healer class, if for no other reason than having Energy Drain. It does barely anything being a 100 potency attack, but it's a way to spend your excess Aetherflows without overhealing. WHM has to waste lilies to overheal get Afflatus Misery, SGE has to overheal to get their MP back.
There is just no positive way to engage with these job mechanics, and they refuse to fix that.

Square seems to both understand and not understand it at the same time

Encounters are designed to facilitate healer engagement by not overloading the healing but then the kits look designed like you are desperately fighting for even a single second of downtime

Like pick a lane please