Jobs feel pretty much complete with Dawntrail no?

[HikariKurosawa]

What else can they add aside from polishing up the animations or upgrading existing abilities like fire 3 into fire 4 and adding fire 5 if I use black mage as an example.

Maybe 8.0 will just be potency upgrades and final revisions to what we get in dawntrail, with a major focus on both new/old content and encounter design instead of job advancement? They could rework the entire low level experience to make the game much more fun at all levels.

It feels to me like if they just keep piling on new actions and every expansion after dawntrail that things are going to be too busy and it's just like, a waste of development budget?

We're staying at level 100 from now on so it makes sense that this is it more or less. I wonder how good encounters and the rest of the game's design could become if that was their primary or sole focus. To me, what I'm seeing feels like a really good time to put the jobs on the back burner and put all the budget into everything else. Still polish the jobs as they are, but I don't think it would be a problem at all to just keep them in this state. They just feel complete functionally.

There is a lot they can do without changing how they are currently function like what I described for black mage. For summoner as another example, they could make it so each demi summon has its own individual set of 3 eikons to go with it. Keep the flow of the rotation the same, but change up the power and aesthetic of the eikon phases.

[Supersnow845]

Besides the reworked jobs jobs have felt “complete” relative to their DT iteration since ShB since almost every non reworked job has just gotten another finisher or slight potency upgrades since ShB

I can’t think of a single job that hasn’t been reworked that has meaningfully changed since its ShB iteration

[Musashidon]

we are going to keep lvling up it's just up to yoshi p if we will go to 110 or just lvl squish. i am for lvl squishing cause it will let us get all our skills at lvl 50 and help with the heavy difference in kits between lvls.

also one of the biggest things about the game is getting new skills per expansion and not getting new skills or things being shaken up with rotation changes would hurt the playerbase as its a big reason to play new expansions.

if you want to make the game feel stagnant for players it would be change nothing and stop growing inside the game.

[Jojoya]

What else can they add aside from polishing up the animations or upgrading existing abilities like fire 3 into fire 4 and adding fire 5 if I use black mage as an example.

Maybe 8.0 will just be potency upgrades and final revisions to what we get in dawntrail, with a major focus on both new/old content and encounter design instead of job advancement? They could rework the entire low level experience to make the game much more fun at all levels.

It feels to me like if they just keep piling on new actions and every expansion after dawntrail that things are going to be too busy and it's just like, a waste of development budget?

We're staying at level 100 from now on so it makes sense that this is it more or less. I wonder how good encounters and the rest of the game's design could become if that was their primary or sole focus. To me, what I'm seeing feels like a really good time to put the jobs on the back burner and put all the budget into everything else. Still polish the jobs as they are, but I don't think it would be a problem at all to just keep them in this state. They just feel complete functionally.

There is a lot they can do without changing how they are currently function like what I described for black mage. For summoner as another example, they could make it so each demi summon has its own individual set of 3 eikons to go with it. Keep the flow of the rotation the same, but change up the power and aesthetic of the eikon phases.

There are still job concepts seen in other games that have been barely touched here such as shapeshifting. That would fit in well thematically as a revival of the use of creation magics now that we have the Loporrits to teach them to us.

Re-working the entire low level experience yet again would come at the cost of new content. You're going to have a hard time convincing the bulk of the player base that's a good thing. Re-balancing the roll out of job skills? Now that's a possibility but comes with the risk that players are going to feel that jobs end up even more homogenized and stale at higher levels. It would have to be done careful.

They've been trimming away or combining skills as they add new ones. I highly doubt that button bloat is going to increase.

We don't know that we're staying at level 100 for the rest of the game's future. Last I heard, YoshiP said they were still considering how to handle character level in future expansions. Players get unhappy if there is not some sort of progression system to pursue. There are different ways it's been handled in other games for them to research.

I think you'll also find a lot of players unhappy if new jobs aren't added. People get bored with games once they run out of things to learn.

Personally, I'm just glad I'm not a developer who has to make these decisions. I can keep playing the game as long as I'm having fun, then move to other games if I stop having fun.

[Jojoya]

What else can they add aside from polishing up the animations or upgrading existing abilities like fire 3 into fire 4 and adding fire 5 if I use black mage as an example.

Maybe 8.0 will just be potency upgrades and final revisions to what we get in dawntrail, with a major focus on both new/old content and encounter design instead of job advancement? They could rework the entire low level experience to make the game much more fun at all levels.

It feels to me like if they just keep piling on new actions and every expansion after dawntrail that things are going to be too busy and it's just like, a waste of development budget?

We're staying at level 100 from now on so it makes sense that this is it more or less. I wonder how good encounters and the rest of the game's design could become if that was their primary or sole focus. To me, what I'm seeing feels like a really good time to put the jobs on the back burner and put all the budget into everything else. Still polish the jobs as they are, but I don't think it would be a problem at all to just keep them in this state. They just feel complete functionally.

There is a lot they can do without changing how they are currently function like what I described for black mage. For summoner as another example, they could make it so each demi summon has its own individual set of 3 eikons to go with it. Keep the flow of the rotation the same, but change up the power and aesthetic of the eikon phases.

There are still job concepts seen in other games that have been barely touched here such as shapeshifting. That would fit in well thematically as a revival of the use of creation magics now that we have the Loporrits to teach them to us.

Re-working the entire low level experience yet again would come at the cost of new content. You're going to have a hard time convincing the bulk of the player base that's a good thing. Re-balancing the roll out of job skills? Now that's a possibility but comes with the risk that players are going to feel that jobs end up even more homogenized and stale at higher levels. It would have to be done careful.

They've been trimming away or combining skills as they add new ones. I highly doubt that button bloat is going to increase.

We don't know that we're staying at level 100 for the rest of the game's future. Last I heard, YoshiP said they were still considering how to handle character level in future expansions. Players get unhappy if there is not some sort of progression system to pursue. There are different ways it's been handled in other games for them to research.

I think you'll also find a lot of players unhappy if new jobs aren't added. People get bored with games once they run out of things to learn.

Personally, I'm just glad I'm not a developer who has to make these decisions. I can keep playing the game as long as I'm having fun, then move to other games if I stop having fun.

[HikariKurosawa]

Besides the reworked jobs jobs have felt “complete” relative to their DT iteration since ShB since almost every non reworked job has just gotten another finisher or slight potency upgrades since ShB

I can’t think of a single job that hasn’t been reworked that has meaningfully changed since its ShB iteration

Are you sure about that?

we are going to keep lvling up it's just up to yoshi p if we will go to 110 or just lvl squish. i am for lvl squishing cause it will let us get all our skills at lvl 50 and help with the heavy difference in kits between lvls.

also one of the biggest things about the game is getting new skills per expansion and not getting new skills or things being shaken up with rotation changes would hurt the playerbase as its a big reason to play new expansions.

if you want to make the game feel stagnant for players it would be change nothing and stop growing inside the game.

That's an interesting theory, but it's possible we will stay at level 100 and just continue to get ilvl increases with content being synched to ilvl rather than character level going forward. This would allow for several expansions to keep the same level 100 job design starting with dawntrail instead of having to lose abilities when playing past content.

If you read my post, I never said that new stuff couldn't be added. I gave specific examples for how they could add new abilities without changing the amount of buttons we have to press. There is potential for 6 new eikons if we give a unique set for each demi summon for example. BLM can get higher versions of each magic spell. The basic attacks of each melee job could get new animations with new potency like dragoon has in endwalker and dawntrail.

I think we're reaching a point where adding more on top of what already exists is going to be too many buttons to press and a waste of opportunity to refine what we already have. Lots of jobs in dawntrail are looking to have actually perfect job design at their core. You can add new abilities without changing the rotations and people will still feel the same as if they got new abilities. Look at how dragoon feels with raiden thrust and heaven's thrust. They can do the same thing with wheeling thrust/fang and claw. Ninja's entire base rotation could be upgraded to new abilities. There are more ways to add new abilities than to just keep adding new finishers. We have an extremely strong and arguably perfect foundation in many cases, why not just modify what we're already working with instead of adding more buttons to press?

Plus, the biggest reason people play new expansions is to experience the MSQ and new content. You're overstating the importance of abilities and rotation changes by a lot I think. It's an interesting angle but I don't really agree with it.

[Supersnow845]

Changing fire 4 to high fire 4 is the same sort of changes we have been getting since ShB and a big part of why people think the current combat system is getting stale. Nothing is changing the actual structure of the jobs anymore, we are just getting finishers and potency buffs

New jobs and new skills definitely contribute to peoples excitement of their current mains which is why people get so excited for the job action trailer

Keeping the level at 100 while still giving jobs meaningful changes to get excited about every expansion is a delicate balance

[HikariKurosawa]

There are still job concepts seen in other games that have been barely touched here such as shapeshifting. That would fit in well thematically as a revival of the use of creation magics now that we have the Loporrits to teach them to us.

Re-working the entire low level experience yet again would come at the cost of new content. You're going to have a hard time convincing the bulk of the player base that's a good thing. Re-balancing the roll out of job skills? Now that's a possibility but comes with the risk that players are going to feel that jobs end up even more homogenized and stale at higher levels. It would have to be done careful.

They've been trimming away or combining skills as they add new ones. I highly doubt that button bloat is going to increase.

We don't know that we're staying at level 100 for the rest of the game's future. Last I heard, YoshiP said they were still considering how to handle character level in future expansions. Players get unhappy if there is not some sort of progression system to pursue. There are different ways it's been handled in other games for them to research.

I think you'll also find a lot of players unhappy if new jobs aren't added. People get bored with games once they run out of things to learn.

Personally, I'm just glad I'm not a developer who has to make these decisions. I can keep playing the game as long as I'm having fun, then move to other games if I stop having fun.

New jobs are inevitable for sure, and it's a good thing for them to focus on since it gives them a lot of creative freedom. I didn't mean to imply that they shouldn't add new jobs. Just that maybe they will stop adding more buttons to the current jobs and shift the focus to upgrading the satisfaction of the buttons we already have.

I don't think it's that hard of a sell to modernize and rebalance the entire experience of the game. Tons of the appeal of ffxiv is doing roulettes and leveling all the jobs. If anything it would give people more incentive to start alts and re-experience the entire journey all over again.

Like I said in the post I just made, rather than leveling up we could gain upgraded abilities through job questlines and increase our power scaling through ilvl upgrades. 100 is a nice peak for the level number. I would personally not mind staying at it indefinitely. Especially since it would mean that we would have access to our full job kit for several expansions worth of content going forward from dawntrail like I said.

[HikariKurosawa]

Changing fire 4 to high fire 4 is the same sort of changes we have been getting since ShB and a big part of why people think the current combat system is getting stale. Nothing is changing the actual structure of the jobs anymore, we are just getting finishers and potency buffs

New jobs and new skills definitely contribute to peoples excitement of their current mains which is why people get so excited for the job action trailer

Keeping the level at 100 while still giving jobs meaningful changes to get excited about every expansion is a delicate balance

That's not even remotely true though. I don't want to be hostile or anything but if those are your complaints they have no basis in reality. Look at the job actions added in the past two expansions and the next one.

[Supersnow845]

That's not even remotely true though. I don't want to be hostile or anything but if those are your complaints they have no basis in reality. Look at the job actions added in the past two expansions and the next one.

Okay let’s look at some examples
WAR- EW- buff to nascent flash, feller cleave. DT- buff to vengeance, feller cleaver
RDM- EW- slight mana redo another finisher. DT- buff to combo starters, oGCD finisher
Healers- EW- GCD potency upgrade, heal they don’t need. DT- minor new damage attack tied to long CD’s, heal they don’t need
MCH- EW- third short CD high damage CD that interacts with nothing. DT- combo for prior action, 120 second finisher
GNB- EW- two gauge finisher. DT- another finisher but this time it’s a combo
RPR- DT- another button you press in your enshroud window

None of these changes change the core flow of the job, open up new interactions or meaningfully change how the job plays over the course of the fight. I could actually argue the reverse that the only job that didn’t get reworked that got meaningful changes is BLM with paradox as ice paradox filled the empty slot in the ice phase that used to be a messy problem in ShB but even that’s reaching