Are we going to keep pretending that PC and console players are the same?

[Saraide]

IF they were to implement an anti-cheat, I'd be willing to bet the amount of people banned who use character mods would be magnitudes more than any raiders would. I would imagine the uproar from that crowd would insane.

Encountered someone once who unironically thought those character mods were the real cheats compared to cactbot or whatever. Yes including viera hats.

[Larirawiel]

Square enix not using anti-cheat detection on the client side of the game is one of the worst possible decisions they have ever made.

It is not necessarily a bad decision. Every decision they make has its own consequences. I guess, they decided, that an anti cheat mechanism is not worth the hassle, it could produce. Most anti cheat mechanisms do not work because you can easily bypass them. Only root kit like anti cheats are effective. But a root kit is a huge security hole for the whole system and a source for instability.


Cheers

[Azureskies01]

IF they were to implement an anti-cheat, I'd be willing to bet the amount of people banned who use character mods would be magnitudes more than any raiders would. I would imagine the uproar from that crowd would insane.

And where exactly would they complain? in the game? on these forums? ohh no they couldn't because that would mean that they would either have been using the cheats/mods or be apologists for people that do.

Holy crap it is as if you people don't understand that it has been against ToS to use them for the entire time the game has been out. To cry about them cleaning house would be childish. Go play VR chat if you want to mod your game.

[Azureskies01]

It is not necessarily a bad decision. Every decision they make has its own consequences. I guess, they decided, that an anti cheat mechanism is not worth the hassle, it could produce. Most anti cheat mechanisms do not work because you can easily bypass them. Only root kit like anti cheats are effective. But a root kit is a huge security hole for the whole system and a source for instability.


Cheers

First off no, there are effective anti cheat systems that don't get kernel level access (VaC) however they are the easiest to be effective because of that fact.

It is all about implementation, Elden Ring uses EAC yet you can just mod it out of the game where as fornite uses it as well and ....yeah try modding it out of that game.

The fact of the matter is people are going to cheat in any game that has any amount of competitiveness to it. People even have been found to be cheating in Helldivers 2 for cryin out loud. A strictly PvE game but seeing as how it is slightly competitive people do it. The question then becomes do the players and the devs want to deal with the cheaters or let them run the game. There is no middle ground. Ults now requiring AM/cact, ranked CC being pointless because of the pluggins and yes even people doing stupid crap like mare all detract from the game in one way or another. They all should get banned for going against ToS. To say otherwise makes you suspect as ****.

It isn't the fault of SE as to why people cheat, cheaters will want to in any game they play. I wish the community was as good as people say it is but you would have to be blind to the state of the game for the last 2 years to agree with them. Something must be done and as I said before it should have been done years ago, that is the one fault you can put on SE.

[Saraide]

Cactbot is not required for doing ultimates. AM is standard for PF for specific mechanics because those mechanics are not well done and massively favor statics over PF. AM also doesnt exclude console players at all.

Cheating in pvp sucks but pvp is not important enough in this game for this to matter. Literally no one cared about that one competitive CC event. It's there because it's an MMO tradition. I also predict that pvp cheating is the one aspect of cheating that you'll have the hardest time to get rid off. Even the kernel level anti cheats are struggling with keeping up. You will probably stop viera hats though. And all the things that got implemented into the game because third party tools gave unambigious proof of certain features being highly requested. Like buff timers.

[Menriq]

And where exactly would they complain? in the game? on these forums? ohh no they couldn't because that would mean that they would either have been using the cheats/mods or be apologists for people that do.

Holy crap it is as if you people don't understand that it has been against ToS to use them for the entire time the game has been out. To cry about them cleaning house would be childish. Go play VR chat if you want to mod your game.

They'd complain with their wallets IMO. The amount of people modding is not an insignificant amount. I'm not sure what you mean by "you people", but my point is that if you think it's just combat mods that would be swept in this, you are sadly mistaken. These people leaving would more than likely have a pretty good impact on the metrics. If I had my choice, they'd finally implement addons like they said they would back in ARR Beta, but that ship sailed a long time ago.

[Azureskies01]

They'd complain with their wallets IMO. The amount of people modding is not an insignificant amount. I'm not sure what you mean by "you people", but my point is that if you think it's just combat mods that would be swept in this, you are sadly mistaken. These people leaving would more than likely have a pretty good impact on the metrics. If I had my choice, they'd finally implement addons like they said they would back in ARR Beta, but that ship sailed a long time ago.

While we the players understand there is a difference between combat mods and character/gear mods the ToS has no such distinction and never has. We as players need to understand that. Let them leave if they can't cheat in the game. I'm sure the devs that get paid good money to make content for the game don't like the disrespect of some players willfully making that content pointless for the regular, non cheating player. If you want to mod your game and chat and hang out then go do it in VR chat.

Every modern MMO has some form of anticheat, for whatever reason SE seems to continue to be about a decade late to the party.

[Larirawiel]

First off no, there are effective anti cheat systems that don't get kernel level access (VaC) however they are the easiest to be effective because of that fact.

No, it's not how Windows or other OS work. If you start a cheat software with Administrator privileges then this software can do literary everything. Because the Administrator account has very extensive privileges. And this is the reason why all the FF14 mods and parsers need a special launcher, which has to be started with Administrator privileges. And this is also the reason why i do not use them because those software is not trustworthy enough for me.

If your goal is to prevent manipulation with Administrator privileges then your anti cheat software needs privileges, which are above the Administrator account. And the only way to do this, is a ring 0 kernel driver. And this is the reason why so many anti cheat mechanisms install those drivers. Even Riot Games switched to this kind of anti cheat software. Because other mechanisms are not reliable enough.

But this kind of anti cheat software comes with a price. Kernel drivers have to be written carefully. Because if a ring 0 driver crashes then it will very likely tear down the whole OS. And ring 0 kernel anti cheat software is a proven security risk.

And i can imagine, that this price is too high for SQEX. And they take cheats and mods into account.



Cheers

[Azureskies01]

No, it's not how Windows or other OS work. If you start a cheat software with Administrator privileges then this software can do literary everything. Because the Administrator account has very extensive privileges. And this is the reason why all the FF14 mods and parsers need a special launcher, which has to be started with Administrator privileges. And this is also the reason why i do not use them because those software is not trustworthy enough for me.

If your goal is to prevent manipulation with Administrator privileges then your anti cheat software needs privileges, which are above the Administrator account. And the only way to do this, is a ring 0 kernel driver. And this is the reason why so many anti cheat mechanisms install those drivers. Even Riot Games switched to this kind of anti cheat software. Because other mechanisms are not reliable enough.

But this kind of anti cheat software comes with a price. Kernel drivers have to be written carefully. Because if a ring 0 driver crashes then it will very likely tear down the whole OS. And ring 0 kernel anti cheat software is a proven security risk.

And i can imagine, that this price is too high for SQEX. And they take cheats and mods into account.



Cheers

Tell me you have zero idea about how or why anti cheat programs work without telling me you have zero idea about how or why they work.

At the end of the day the only people against having one in xiv are people that take advantage of the fact there is none, aka cheaters. Almost every other online (competitive) game requires one, so xiv is the odd program out here.

[ForteNightshade]

The "don't ask, don't tell" mod policy is bizarre. Either allow mods or don't. It would make everything simpler if Square would make a call on this and, if they decide to go the "no mods" route, then actually include some sort of anti-mod software if they want to equalize console and PC players. Arguably, even without mods, PC players will always have technological advantages over console players, though.

Bluntly stated, the reason they won't do this is they can't. We have long moved past the point of putting that rabbit back in his hat. Taking a stance of "no third party" and actively forcing DRM would cost them millions. The sheer number of players using mods and/or plugins is staggering. And a not insignificant number of those players will quit the game instantly the second they attempt this. Which is why SE takes the stance they do. It essentially the best of both worlds from their perspective. Players can customize to their heart's content but if they make it too public, SE always has the agility to step in.