Are we going to keep pretending that PC and console players are the same?

[Turtledeluxe]

You can deny it all you want but there is a grey area due to SE not taking a draconian stance with their ToS. Trying to argue hair and body mods are remotely comparable to Cactbot is laughable.

Furthermore, you specifically asked why SE would continue developing hard content when AM exists. That's a wholly different argument than "every plugin ever is ChEaTiNG OMG!!!!!" One actually provides a gameplay advantage whereas the other makes your character have bigger boobs. I mean... I guess that's some kind of advantage

It's not bait to acknowledge that installing DRM will have a heavily negative impact due to how prevalent third party has become. You can lump them altogether if you fancy, that doesn't change anything i said above.



Because like I said above, the amount of people actually using those specific plugins isn't significant compared to everyone else doing the content without them. Both you and Azure are mischaracterizing Yoshida's comment. His response about not making difficult content was towards a zoom hack not hair mods.

The topic is not about hair mods.

The policy is simply contradictory.

[ForteNightshade]

As I said before in this thread for us the player there is a distinction between body mods and combat mods but the ToS makes no distinction. It is all equal cheating under the rules. You being a cheater apologist though is funny.

No we are not mischaracterizing anything. He flat out said that they don't know why they are making ults if people are just going to cheat. Solution, put an anti cheat in the game baby

A ToS they don't enforce, and haven't for nearly a decade. I explained already why they won't ever put in DRM. It's simply not worth it to Square Enix. And yes, you are. Yoshida said that in response to a zoom hack in Ultimate. Therefore, the logical assumption would be they might cut Ultimate development not that they're suddenly going to break every single plugin.

To put into perspective what you're asking: Yoshida would essentially have to explain to SE shareholders why losing a substantially amount of money is a good idea. How well do you think that would go over?

The topic is not about hair mods.

The policy is simply contradictory.

Nobody is debating that it's contradictory. What we're saying is that won't change because it's not profitable for SE to implement any sort of DRM. To put it bluntly, programs like ACT have existed since Heavenswards. If they were going to tackle them, it would have happened a long time ago. The reason they've opted for a "don't ask, don't tell" stance is because it directly benefits them.

[Turtledeluxe]

A ToS they don't enforce, and haven't for nearly a decade. I explained already why they won't ever put in DRM. It's simply not worth it to Square Enix. And yes, you are. Yoshida said that in response to a zoom hack in Ultimate. Therefore, the logical assumption would be they might cut Ultimate development not that they're suddenly going to break every single plugin.

To put into perspective what you're asking: Yoshida would essentially have to explain to SE shareholders why losing a substantially amount of money is a good idea. How well do you think that would go over?



Nobody is debating that it's contradictory. What we're saying is that won't change because it's not profitable for SE to implement any sort of DRM. To put it bluntly, programs like ACT have existed since Heavenswards. If they were going to tackle them, it would have happened a long time ago. The reason they've opted for a "don't ask, don't tell" stance is because it directly benefits them.

Yes, cheating has been ongoing for a long time and the policy has been silly since its inception. Hair mods and profits don't really make those things easier to digest or untrue. They're just diversions from the truth of the matter.

[Azureskies01]

As I said before in this thread for us the player there is a distinction between body mods and combat mods but the ToS makes no distinction. It is all equal cheating under the rules. You being a cheater apologist though is funny.

No we are not mischaracterizing anything. He flat out said that they don't know why they are making ults if people are just going to cheat. Solution, put an anti cheat in the game baby

[Azureskies01]

You do understand that they are putting a substantial amount of money INTO making the content that will eventually be not supported if they don't put an anti cheat in the game...right? Well I guess not right as labor costs in companies aren't one of the highest expenses in companies every year (I'm being sarcastic).

Look it is all against ToS and you trying to say that they wont do it because of their bottom line, while not knowing what their bottom line is (or even that labor costs are expensive) is laughable. Act used to not have cacbot in it, now it does. FFXIV launcher used to not have pluggins, now it does. AM used to not be a thing and the list goes on. It seems as though people can't leave well enough alone and just be happy with act. Nope they gotta take it a step further and further and further and now you have literal cheater apologists on the forums saying (paraphrasing) "it isn't all that bad and the cheats are everywhere plus SE might miss out on that ERP money if they do anything about it so who cares?

Just laughable honestly.

[ForteNightshade]

You do understand that they are putting a substantial amount of money INTO making the content that will eventually be not supported if they don't put an anti cheat in the game...right?

You mean content that has only ever seen a continuous increase in participation over the years? You're acting as though Savage and Ultimate are seeing some massive decline that would warrant some concern when the precise opposite is true. There's literally zero reason they would stop supporting them, especially Savage. Your argument isn't even a strawman at this point, it's just nonsensical.

They're developing content that keeps people subscribed, thus proving valuable to their profit margin. You're arguing they need to put in DRM which will actively hurt said bottom line because people will unsubscribe. In other words, they'll develop content... that less people will do, making it less appealing to continue long term.

Cactbot has been around for like five years my guy. Tiggers existed long before that. The launcher had plugins available almost immediately because it was literally designed for that purpose. Before AM, you had the other program that let you move markers around. Zoom hacking, which is what caused the latest controversary, has been a thing for ages now. You keep mentioning Crystal Conflict. You do realize people were speed hacking in Heavensward, yes? In fact, I just youtubed right now and found a speed hack vod for 1.0. This isn't some new revelation only just coming to the surface. Square has known about all of these, especially the ever infamous parsing.

If they were going to do something like install DRM, they would have done so years ago. Especially if it hurt their revenue. They haven't because it doesn't.

[Azureskies01]

You mean content that has only ever seen a continuous increase in participation over the years? You're acting as though Savage and Ultimate are seeing some massive decline that would warrant some concern when the precise opposite is true. There's literally zero reason they would stop supporting them, especially Savage. Your argument isn't even a strawman at this point, it's just nonsensical.

Do I have to link you the article where Yoshi-p has they would stop supporting them? I also remember him talking about third party cheats in a (there is probably more than one) live letter, should i go find that and link it too? Also yes now you are able to buy ult clears and i wonder why that is? Did they get easier or are more people cheating making the clear rate go up as well as making the people that are actually good at the game able to clear them with a lame duck in the group? hummmmmm I wonder.

Just because someone is right and making points you can't refute doesn't allow you to just call it a "stawman" or whatever the next buzz word is going to be, well I suppose you can do that but it makes ya look kinda low IQ. Keep on doing you though.


Also please for the love of god stop calling anticheat "DRM". What part of Digital Rights Management is do you think is comparable to anticheat. DRM is for checking if the person is running a valid copy of a piece of software where as anticheat checks to make sure you aren't running a side program that is altering the programs RAM or snooping/tampering with packets.... If you didn't even know the difference why are you posting in this thread?

[ForteNightshade]

snip

You mean this article from the lodestone where he is specifically talking about only Ultimate? Additionally, he's talking about it from a gamer perspective not a financial one. To quote him directly, "It’s very difficult for me to understand as a gamer what the meaning behind using numerous third-party tools to compete to clear first would be." They might cut down on Ultimate but nowhere does it suggest they'll do so with Savage or other high end content. They're doing the precise opposite by continuing Criterion despite it's horrendously low participation rate. You don't think people run all these programs in there too?

As for buying clears. People have been doing that since before Ultimate even existed. And said fights have become easier, at least the older ones. UCoB was just killed last week with only six players. It's become a meme how hilariously we out scale them.

You are trying to conflate two entirely difference stances as if they're one and the same. Yoshida has also commented on ACT and directly called a grey zone. Like every time this has ever been brought up, their official stance is "No" to third party being allowed but they're not going to do anything about it.

Except you're not right and I have years of evidence to back up my position. The onus is on you to prove otherwise, especially because you're the one trying to argue they're somehow losing money by not implementing anticheat "DRM". Your entire argument hinges on a statement Yoshida made in regards to a specific piece of content and exaggerating the context to suit your bias. Meanwhile, mine points to the fact despite it being well known for nearly a decade now, SE has done absolutely nothing about third party.

DRM and anticheat are often one in the same. The former is used colloquially because of that. Denuvo, for example, is both. The end result is an invasive program that checks to see if any specific files have been altered when you launch the game and tend to cause more than a few issues. Which is why many of these program are hated. Regardless, you know exactly what I'm referring to.

At this point though, we're just going in circles. So you believe what you want and a year from now continue to scream about "anticheat" when it's still not implemented and never will be.

[CaedemSanguis]

Do I have to link you the article where Yoshi-p has they would stop supporting them? I also remember him talking about third party cheats in a (there is probably more than one) live letter, should i go find that and link it too? Also yes now you are able to buy ult clears and i wonder why that is? Did they get easier or are more people cheating making the clear rate go up as well as making the people that are actually good at the game able to clear them with a lame duck in the group? hummmmmm I wonder.

Just because someone is right and making points you can't refute doesn't allow you to just call it a "stawman" or whatever the next buzz word is going to be, well I suppose you can do that but it makes ya look kinda low IQ. Keep on doing you though.


Also please for the love of god stop calling anticheat "DRM". What part of Digital Rights Management is do you think is comparable to anticheat. DRM is for checking if the person is running a valid copy of a piece of software where as anticheat checks to make sure you aren't running a side program that is altering the programs RAM or snooping/tampering with packets.... If you didn't even know the difference why are you posting in this thread?

Do you want me to link the LL part when yoshi say " New ultimate raid for 7.1" ?

[Saraide]

Did they get easier or are more people cheating making the clear rate go up as well as making the people that are actually good at the game able to clear them with a lame duck in the group? hummmmmm I wonder.

When you buy a clear you are usually giving your login info to the seller so they can pilot your account.