The GM team is completely ineffective.

[Ath192]

And you may be right. You may be 100% right. However, I'm not the only one who's been frustrated with this specific issue, I'm not the first (nor, I suspect, the last) to post forum threads on this issue, and I'm certainly not the only reporting it. To us it's a clear ToS violation; to them, it may just be business as usual... Which is where the policies themselves hold the team back. The policy is to tell you that they're investigating, and that's it. They never do a follow up, you never know what happened, and to a degree, that's fine. I personally would be fine not knowing what action was taken, I'm more interested in clearly knowing when action was not taken, which goes back to my suggestion of having them send a message that says "We've determined the actions in question do not violate Terms of Service." I feel like, in the long run, that would actually save them some time. Unfortunately, they don't take that approach, and so I continue to believe them to be completely ineffective.

Also, you've given a reason why I haven't bothered to state the reason here yet. "It was argued this is more a nuisance issue than a spam issue," the qualifier doesn't matter, the point still stands that it's against ToS. GM inaction is not a good enough excuse, they need to be better.

I actually hope they remain as is instead of giving into the demands of a bunch of Karens that just wanna ban everyone into oblivion. That doesn't sound fun. When I go to Limsa Lominsa it looks like a dirty pirate town full of illicit activity and a bunch of people trying to peddle things. In a video game that would probably look like spam to some.

If Uldah is anything like Egypt you're lucky NPCs don't pick pocket you and you lose gil by the hour.

It just seems to me you want the world to be a perfectly law abiding place where everything is neat and proper but the real world is hardly like that outside some select suburbs that have a super annoying home owners association and the people that go along with that environment. You can largely expect an MMO or large social hub to reflect more of the world since anyone can log on and do stuff.

Also for everyone they ban over trivial stuff that person probably quits and they lose money. They could also choose to ignore you if the "violation" isn't a big deal to people with common sense and make more money.

Hmmm, that's a tough one isn't it.

[Kazmarek]

I actually hope they remain as is instead of giving into the demands of a bunch of Karens that just wanna ban everyone into oblivion. That doesn't sound fun. When I go to Limsa Lominsa it looks like a dirty pirate town full of illicit activity and a bunch of people trying to peddle things. In a video game that would probably look like spam to some.

If Uldah is anything like Egypt you're lucky NPCs don't pick pocket you and you lose gil by the hour.

It just seems to me you want the world to be a perfectly law abiding place where everything is neat and proper but the real world is hardly like that outside some select suburbs that have a super annoying home owners association and the people that go along with that environment. You can largely expect an MMO or large social hub to reflect more of the world since anyone can log on and do stuff.

Also for everyone they ban over trivial stuff that person probably quits and they lose money. They could also choose to ignore you if the "violation" isn't a big deal to people with common sense and make more money.

Hmmm, that's a tough one isn't it.

What are you even talking about? No, really, what are you even talking about? How is any of what you said relevant to this discussion? What is your Ul'dah "example" even supposed to be? Where did I say I want to ban everyone into oblivion? For the love of everything holy, being courteous to others is not a hard concept to grasp. It's really not. I have no idea what you were trying to say with this post and I'm embarrassed on your behalf.

[Ath192]

What are you even talking about? No, really, what are you even talking about? How is any of what you said relevant to this discussion? What is your Ul'dah "example" even supposed to be? Where did I say I want to ban everyone into oblivion? For the love of everything holy, being courteous to others is not a hard concept to grasp. It's really not. I have no idea what you were trying to say with this post and I'm embarrassed on your behalf.

Same, actually, I'm embarrassed we have players that won't disclose what spam is to them and go on about how people should just know what it constitutes to you and ban others over it. But let me tell you, if the GMs have spoken to you, you've harrassed the GMs with multiple non-stop reports, and they've told you they can't give you any answers and did not do your biding they determined you are the one with the issue and not the game.

To me it sounds like you're spamming them and they should ban you at this point.

[Kazmarek]

Same, actually, I'm embarrassed we have players that won't disclose what spam is to them and go on about how people should just know what it constitutes to you and ban others over it. But let me tell you, if the GMs have spoken to you, you've harrassed the GMs with multiple non-stop reports, and they've told you they can't give you any answers and did not do your biding they determined you are the one with the issue and not the game.

To me it sounds like you're spamming them and they should ban you at this point.

Can you read my responses first before posting another response? Because I don't feel like you did.

Oh and just to piggyback off of this point, I don't know what the GMs are thinking. Their responses are always the same copy-paste canned response (which I'm not faulting them for, I don't believe they should have to send a personalized response to each individual person) that always says "hey, please don't hesitate to reach out to us if there are any other matters." So even in their own canned response they're inviting users to keep going for it and electing to make their job more tedious.

[Kazmarek]

The problem herein is that what constitutes "spam" is subjective at best.

Examples:

1. The shouting of "YOOOOO" in the Gold Saucer when Yojimbo appears. Does this qualify? I'd say no, but I saw an argument yesterday evening in the Gold Saucer over this very thing.

2. A one-time shout advertising a nightclub event. Does this qualify? I'd say no, but plenty of other people despise any sort of nightclub advertisement.

3. Sound effect and text macros for PvP, along with constantly marking players on the team. Does this qualify? I'd say it can be annoying depending on how it's used, but others don't mind at all or even consider it necessary for coordination.

4. "Meowdy" and gigantic cat ASCII macros in party and raid chat. Does this qualify? I'd say yes, and everyone else should say yes, too

The point is, it's all quite up to interpretation. No great shock that GMs only intervene in truly extreme and obvious cases. "Spam" for some people is "whatever annoys me," and leaving it undefined is as intellectually absurd as Justice Potter Stewart's "I know it when I see it" definition of obscenity.

Furthermore, especially with 7.0, we can block words/phrases and blacklist anybody, so each of us will not have to see/read/encounter stuff that annoys us.

So what's the issue with them sending back a response that says "We've determined these actions do not violate terms of service." ?

[Ath192]

Can you read my responses first before posting another response? Because I don't feel like you did.

Oh and just to piggyback off of this point, I don't know what the GMs are thinking. Their responses are always the same copy-paste canned response (which I'm not faulting them for, I don't believe they should have to send a personalized response to each individual person) that always says "hey, please don't hesitate to reach out to us if there are any other matters." So even if their own canned response they're inviting users to keep going for it and electing to make their job more tedious.

Oh I did, and everyone here is just as confused as I am to why you are complaining so much. When the GMs didn't give you what you wanted you came here to criticize them, which is against the TOS it seems, as someone else has posted. But that's okay because its you breaking the TOS and not others correct? They should only ban people you find annoying.

[Kazmarek]

There is no issue with that response.

Sorry, that might've come off as a bit rude. I do generally agree with what you're saying, one person's spam may be another person's... finish the line however you like. It's not really feasible for them to outline each and every possible scenario and I would never ask them to try. I just want to see a little bit more communication.

If they came back and told me "we've determined your issue isn't against ToS" then yeah, of course I wouldn't be happy about it, but at that point my choices are either "suck it up, buttercup" or just quit playing.

[Kazmarek]

Oh I did, and everyone here is just as confused as I am to why you are complaining so much. When the GMs didn't give you what you wanted you came here to criticize them, which is against the TOS it seems, as someone else has posted. But that's okay because its you breaking the TOS and not others correct? They should only ban people you find annoying.

Please stop being intellectually dishonest.

[Ath192]

Please stop being intellectually dishonest.

Oh I am being extremely honest, you just don't like it. I'm truly sorry the world can't cater to your whims.

[Kazmarek]

Oh I am being extremely honest, you just don't like it. I'm truly sorry the world can't cater to your whims.

No, you're really not. You're twisting what I'm saying to fit your own belief because you don't think the GMs can do any wrong. They're human, they're prone to mistakes just like the rest of us. Nowhere have I said, nor implied, that they need to cater to my whims, that's insane. I'm saying they need to be better and communicate more. You're twisting that into something I'm not saying. If you'd like to discuss why more communication would be a good or bad thing, or why you think the team is or is not effective, I'm happy to listen. Otherwise, I don't really think it's worth my time to continue to engage with you.