Remove moggle tome events from frontline

[Neoyoshi]

I'd be down for it, it'd get people actually wanting to win.

I always go in wanting to win, i like mounts, i thought others did too. o__o

[OliviaLugria]

I always go in wanting to win, i like mounts, i thought others did too. o__o

People want to win, but don't want to have to try to do so

[Mawlzy]

People want to win, but don't want to have to try to do so

No. They don't believe trying makes any difference. And they're mostly correct. Besides, now we've discovered FL is a venue for ERP, they've probably got better things to do. Talk about fraternizing with the enemy, eh?

The only way to remove the people who are only interested in rewards is to remove rewards.

Here's a scenario. I forget how the daily roulette XP works in detail, but it's probably the case that the most efficient (in terms of XP/hour) way of farming it in FL is to lose as quickly as possible. For an unstudied player, it's much easier to help the other team than to help your own. So rather than your "win at any cost" mentality, we have the "lose as fast as possible" mentality. If you're only there to get XP rapidly, that is a perfectly logical position.

How would people achieve this goal? They'd form a premade! Four like-minded souls, rushing together to the nearest opposing DRK+ stack, gleefully diving in to the blender like the devout anticipating the rapture. (Maybe they'd all play DRK in the hope team members would follow them to their doom!) As their health bars drop to zero they all sing "Praise Olivia! Please take these points with our blessing! Brb after respawn."

And maybe this is already happening.

[OliviaLugria]

No. They don't believe trying makes any difference. And they're mostly correct.

If trying didn't make a differance, why are premades winning more?

[Mawlzy]

If trying didn't make a differance, why are premades winning more?

You know the answer to that. The current rule and skill sets so favor the kind of coordinated burst that only* a premade can provide, that four such people "trying" creates a massive shift in expected win-rate for that team. That's the problem. It renders the efforts of the remaining 20 team members largely irrelevant. A more precise formulation may be that... I dunno... you may require half the remaining 20 to at least follow your waymarker, but is that "trying"? That'll happen simply because it's the path of least resistance. (Turning off your chat creates no noticeable degradation IME.) Some may be doing this because they recognize zerging is correct (I guess that's a form of "trying"?); others will do so because they are worried you might put them into detention.

*And we can go round in circles all day about how that burst may be possible for randoms, and that there are effective premade counters, but the win-rate says everything. Assuming the field is your premade and 68 randoms, we can conclude many of those people are not trying. And yet you and your colleagues obtain win-rates massively exceeding par.

That's all it takes. A French Maid and three minions.

My guess is this is precisely why SE made the mode 24v24v24. It's far less intimidating for a complete novice to be one of a crowd. They figure (rightly), that while they won't be much help, if they just follow everyone else they are unlikely to do much harm. This is why my win-rate has always been within a couple of tenths of 33.3%, from the first time small numbers had been passed to make the number meaningful, to the 2500+ I've played since.

And no doubt some PvP charmer is now going to tell me to "git gudder."

SE has the party vs solo stats. They should act on them.

[OliviaLugria]

Sounds like the people trying to win more are winning more.

[Mawlzy]

Sounds like the people trying to win more are winning more.

I do my best in every game I play unless I choose to leave. I am not as good as you by a long chalk but I am decent. More importantly, I have gotten much better with time. It makes no difference to win-rate. Others in these threads report the same.

I am actually fine with simply achieving the win-rate the mode expects, provided the games are competitive. The size of each team naturally diminishes the importance of any one individual. The win-rate you achieve is a huge statistical outlier. That is the problem!!!!

[OliviaLugria]

There's people who want to win more, and do the things necessary to achieve that goal. You can do the your best as much as you want, but you don't take the obvious steps needed to win.

[Mawlzy]

There's people who want to win more, and do the things necessary to achieve that goal. You can do the your best as much as you want, but you don't take the obvious steps needed to win.

By obvious steps, you mean form my own premade? No, I won't do that. I have many flaws, but I'm not a hypocrite.

Thanks for engaging, Olivia. It has helped me understand better your mindset on all this, but it's clear we're not going to find common ground. Roll on 7.1.

[OliviaLugria]

I mean, that's one of them yes. 1 person can outperform 10 others, makes sense to bring along 3 others who can do the same. I can list more if you want

Hope you enjoy the ocean fishing.