A possible fix for "submarine income"

[Jojoya]

The question to be asked is what is the issue with submarines - I feel like the FC/Non-FC content arguement is more a strawman. The question is - whats wrong with submarines? If the issue is that subFC's are eating housing; thats the problem my suggestion aims to solve. If the issue is a persons own personal access to submarines; that's another discussion.

The solution offered essentially minimizes the changes needed as even running subs can be managed by FC permissions.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with subs other than a FC house is required to have the workshop to run them.

I think the correct solution is to detach the workshop from house ownership. That benefits those trying to get a house. And while most probably wouldn't believe this, it would benefit those interested in purchasing items that comes only from sub voyages. More active subs means more of those items making it to the marketboard with competition driving down prices faster. Not everyone is running Fight Club on all of their subs all the time.

But if SE is not going to detach the workshop from house ownership, then solutions are needed to deter those who want the houses just for another workshop so more houses make it into the hands of those who seek a house for the sake of housing. People aren't wrong when they say it's depressing to walk into a ward just to find most owners haven't even decorated their yards. It adds to the ghost town effect.

I dont see any problem with that. Its a highly skewed system now as big FCs gain less per member than small FCs. Idealy you want a system that scales up as FCs increase, but in its current system, as its usualy just a few with access, most members just dont get any value anyway.

The entire FC system is outdated here. At best you could still keep access behind an FC, but make each member manage their own submarine. Alternatively still allowing the FC to have some ships to enable members to get specific resources (like a retainer, but with fixed cycles in which you can request the desired resources - with fixed values given back). This then at least makes it beneficial to have FC subs.

I mostly agree with you. SE has neglected the FC system. They never even followed up on the Rank increase to 30 back in Shadowbringers, with no entitlements added past Rank 20. The only change we got for FCs in Endwalker was adding a length of membership requirement for FC Master to be transferred to another member and that was done to combat RMT sales of houses.

But the FC system neglect is a separate issue that deserves its own discussion.

As for each FC member being able to operate their own sub, that would require a complete overhaul of the voyage system since subs are blanket permission to be able to collect voyage loot from any sub or not collect loot. With the way it is now, a FC Master could demand a monthly payment from members to get the permissions for voyage deployment/recall. "Pay me 500k gil a month to get permissions. Your sub didn't earn you that much this month? Not my problem".

I like this idea a lot!

1) 4 player fc's would get the same amount of subs as now, solo fcs would get less and bigger fcs would get more. Seems fair.
2) Players would be rewarded according to the amount of effort they put in, including both the leveling/equipment process and the daily logins to run the missions.
3) An fc leader couldn't reap the benefits of something others built, unless they donated it voluntarily.
4) Sublords would be able to operate all their subs within one fc and one house. Buying more houses would be an unnecessary cost.
5) Ownership of submarines could not be transferred to another character, which would make the resale value of a house be based solely on its location.
6) This would bring more fc members to the fc house on a regular basis and increase social interaction.
7) People would have a gameplay reason to belong to an fc. Buffs you can't choose, a bank you can't use and a house you can't decorate are not it, but a workshop would be useful to everyone.

There should also be a way to save submarine progress in those cases where a player leaves or gets kicked and joins another fc.

How would schematics for parts and other projects at the Fabrication Station be unlocked?

Considering the massive RNG on what a voyage can return, the loot tables would need to be overhauled or subs would be too expensive for most players to be able to operate.

Again, my point about how FC Masters could sell permissions without a massive overhaul of how workshop access fits into FC hierarchy.

What a FC has unlocked at the Fabrication Station could still impact sale value. Subs/airships aren't the only way to make gil from a workshop, they just require less effort over the long term.

If members aren't being social already, I don't think this would change things. If anything, I think there would be more drama as members would have to wait for other members to finish using the Fabrication Station and Voyage Control Panel to get their own turn.

I don't think SE is interested in creating reasons that would make players feel forced to be part of a FC. Players should join a FC because they enjoy playing with others in the FC and not because membership gates4 a way to earn gil or unique loot.

If being part of a FC is supposed to be a requirement for access, then it doesn't make sense to allow progress to carryover as a player moves from FC to FC. Might as well add personal workshops at that point.

Where will the people complaining about gil from salvage go?

They'll find something new to complain about, of course.

Gil from salvage would be a non-issue if it weren't for workshops being attached to FC houses. As some of us have pointed out several times, what someone is going to make running Fight Club on 4 subs for an entire month is less than what a lot of players make in a single day selling items on the marketboard. What makes it appealing is that once the right sectors are unlocked and the sub has the right parts, it's extremely low effort compared to the effort put in by players who earn more.

What happens if the house gets relocated?

House relocation doesn't affect workshop progress.

FCs are for social interaction for those who wish to have it. The workshop is also on par with the buffs, bank, and house. Why separate that?

Workshops offer no social interaction anymore. That disappeared with the removal of the Light Party requirement to operate the Fabrication Station.

I think you're ignoring that everything about a FC is under the FC Master's control. Want access to the workshop? FC Master has to decide if you should have it. Want a say in what buffs are being run for the FC? Better hope the FC Master agrees with what you want. Want access to the Company Chest? FC Master has to decide if they trust you. Want access to the house? FC Master has to decide if you should have it.

There are a lot of good FCs with good FC Masters out there. They use common sense in handing out permissions instead of going on a power trip.

There are a lot of bad FCs with bad FC Masters out there. They're power tripping away because there's nothing to stop them. Even if members get fed up and leave, the FC Master still has everything the FC built up. In some cases, that's all the FC Master was after in the first place - members to rank up the FC and generate company credits.