AI and the future of FFXIV.

[MrKyo]

- And for some reason these are a few of the same accounts from a thread I posted 2 years ago that started slamming racial slurs at eachother to have it completely deleted.

Shower.

[SannaR]

You can get around the character limit by editing your posts.

[Jeeqbit]

Refuting points with things like 'that's what feedback is for' when you know very well that feedback would not effect systems that deteriorate the enjoyment of the product if the entire product is mishandled by over indulging in the systems deacribed js pseudo-intellectualism, you need to study more.

That depends very much on if Yoshi-P continued to be in charge and do live letters. He listens. So if all the players complained and said "the AI has resulted in a lackluster product", he'd probably dwell on that himself, agree with it and make adjustments.

The idea is that the less a human mind tackles what'a going on the less a human mind will seek relation or enjoyment.

I understand that and agree, but ultimately, it doesn't mean they shouldn't speed up their processes and take advantage of modern technology.

I've wanted to code something that would have taken me 24 hours, but I wanted it done now. I went to an AI chatbox and wrote a giant, rocket-science paragraph. As I was writing each sentence, I understood what I was writing, but each sentence was so complex, it was incomprehensible trying to read it back. When I read the paragraph back to myself as a whole, it was so complicated that I could not even understand what I had written. But the AI did, and it generated all the code for me exactly as I described, and it worked. The issues with AI usually come from prompts being too small.

We didn't entirely disagree on this point, as you mentioned they should speed up their processes.

Automation should exist but not be the entirety.

See, my post doesn't even really disagree with you. I am just more optimistic than you seem to be about the developers' ability to draw the line, or correct it if they cross it.

[Turtledeluxe]

Literally no one said the entire game is going to be automated by AI. So who are you arguing with? Casper the friendly ghost? Certainly not SE and no one on the dev team.

[SigmaOZ]

@OP


What Square Enix could do with AI is use it to make NPC characters feel more real and I don't mean battle-related stuff but personality, it would be really nice to be able to hold conversations with any NPC in the game as if they were real people.


I know SE won't do it because it would cost them too much money, they'd argue but it's the perfect opportunity to use AI in-game, besides making battle-related NPCs smarter and as fast as real people, which they aren't currently.


Can't grind dungeons with the Squadron because they are dumb and extremely slow compared to real players.

[Boblawblah]

OMG THE ENTIRE GAME IS GOING TO BE AUTOMATED BY AI!!!

[CuteBucket]

OP, I hate AI as much as the next artist, but I have no idea what you're getting at here. This post is incomprehensible.

[Catwho]

They've already been using it. In FF7 Remake and Rebirth, the facial expressions during non mo-capped cutscenes have been enhanced using data sets trained on the mo-capped stuff, to have a more realistic display of facial tics, blinks, etc.

https://segmentnext.com/final-fantas...l-expressions/

[MrKyo]

You're all thinking much less expansively than someone from a development POV.

Remastering and coordination to make things faster? Great. If they run the route of it being a potential successive development cycle to games that have made their money and are trash-hauling reuptake from what an AI can shove out as fast as possible for the sake of keeping it online, or even populated-looking, there's a problem.

There's a very common mindset I'm seeing of going to the extreme and that's just the way NA and similar regions are however the systems at hand do not produce very wonderous content if you're pushing them too far and it takes quite an explanation and comparison for someone to understand that as it's inherently a basis of thinking that nobody is very accustomed to - especially when using the technology all the time without thinking twice about it.

It's not to doom AI, who doesn't want a more productive cycle? It will, however, reach a point of redundancy and the last thing you'd probably wish to see from FFXIV is another 40 features that have absolutely nothing to relate to. It's just a videogame after-all but the scenery and environments in alternative titles have completely ruined it for me, personally. I've explained everything else.

They've already been using it. In FF7 Remake and Rebirth, the facial expressions during non mo-capped cutscenes have been enhanced using data sets trained on the mo-capped stuff, to have a more realistic display of facial tics, blinks, etc.

https://segmentnext.com/final-fantas...l-expressions/

For some reason the screengrab disturbs me at first glance. Possibly just a personal preference but the animation itself gives me an immediate feeling of a graphic designer trying comically hard to transplant a real face into a 3d environment - which is exactly what's going on. I'd wager someone spending the time to articulate this within the environment would end up being less "realistic" but more fluid to the content your consuming.

In the same way over-filtering yourself on a real-life image can be a little weird is because it's the exact same way in reverse. Both end-up over extreme. It gives me the same feeling; I want to laugh at it.

I can kind of try to drive home a point - It's when we spend so much time on these games that it becomes something that is potentially more toxic than just wasting away at a computer screen for the reverse of what over-tweaking your photos do. If we were to use AI to make action sounds, gibs (gore, movement, etc) and otherwise catalogued data from real slaughters of war you'd end up playing a game that could give you onset symptoms of traumatic stress or psychosis depending on how long you play it.

Technological advancements are cool, faster content doesn't bother anyone as long as it's enjoyable and I fully understand that it already is functioning and has functioned in the past. Going too far takes a very specific and acute understanding of what may perplex you over time when it's used too often for things that matter the most - And when you wager development cycle the things that matter the most would be the most vital things to want to have augmented by AI at first glance!

With how extreme the environment is in the first world right now I do urge that this was much more passive of a post than most might comprehend and because it's such a controversial movement of modern tech you can even see in immediate criticism that it drives an extreme narrative. With how business really works (as you can see video-game companies still get DDoS attacks for business related reasons - think on the maturity concept here, it's not just some script kid that hates final fantasy) there is a lot of things that alarm me when considering platforms like FFXIV that may end up conceptually dog-piling the game and not in the right way.

That depends very much on if Yoshi-P continued to be in charge and do live letters. He listens. So if all the players complained and said "the AI has resulted in a lackluster product", he'd probably dwell on that himself, agree with it and make adjustments.

Unfortunately, this is not how business works. The playtest cycle and buffer for criticism and response are predetermined at launch with a scope to intake and manage adjustments while also working on further content for your company (in most normal cases). It's like a cake factory that printed their entire lot of pastries of all types with a small number of defects on everything because of an automation that promised one thing and resulted in another - They aren't going to go back and scrap it like they did for 1.0 if it's add-on to an established product. The problem here resides in the understanding that instead of just eating the silly pastry from this example you're going to be returning to it and dedicating it. Adjusting what AI adds to a large amount of important aspects of your given product (especially when relating to art and functionality) can be 10x as difficult to go back and change because of how the automation builds and continues its build-allocated parameters in its own cycle to create what was 'AI' enhanced. -- What you might see happen, because of what screens are and how they work with our brains, is the content becoming cheesy, laughable and eerie. It'd be like grand-dad showing up to the back lot of your high school as a youngster trying to speak to you the exact same way your friends do. It won't feel right when things that are important and striking to you and your growth start coming up, it'd be cringe.


Regardless, I see what your opinion is and do recognize it. What I'm trying t touch on is not something many people will understand as just a consumer let alone are expected to but should. You might notice what I mean, eventually.

@OP


What Square Enix could do with AI is use it to make NPC characters feel more real and I don't mean battle-related stuff but personality, it would be really nice to be able to hold conversations with any NPC in the game as if they were real people.


I know SE won't do it because it would cost them too much money, they'd argue but it's the perfect opportunity to use AI in-game, besides making battle-related NPCs smarter and as fast as real people, which they aren't currently.


Can't grind dungeons with the Squadron because they are dumb and extremely slow compared to real players.

This would be a great use of it! NPC's that give you a stock of script that is dynamic or changing based on what you wear, look, how far in progress and ETC would add to immersion. This could already be done without AI but and AI system would be able to string more personal and dynamic things related to your character to enhance what was already available. Like a moogle noticing your sword to a moogle noticing your sword that your friend also commented on as being jealous over you having. That's not the thing I'm really touching on - It's more related to art and mechanical interaction. Like I've noted previously the AI face-rigs devs are really in-to right now creep me out. I've had a few extremes in my life that have likely caused this perplexity prematurely in comparison to others, but it will end up being the case eventually. The systems and build and progress but it can and has been something that detracts the consumer from completely enjoying the product. The way it responds to the intricacies of human synapse result in slight agitation and annoyance. It's the same resulting concept if all of your friends suddenly over-edited their faces when you didn't want to, need to or otherwise. It's mildly disturbing (maybe not important as it's not you nor your choice). Here we have an added layer of investment into a recreational activity that, hilariously enough, more directly effects your perception in the equal and opposite way to what your real-life friends might be doing on social media.
___________________________
___________________________
___________________________

It's not like the world's going to end over FFXIV face rigs, it's just a discussion, of course.

In regard to the sh#t posters: It's like you're defending a concept that you're attached to and it's strange. Stop it. There are real-world implications to the uses of tech far beyond an era where grandma and grandpa told you playing GTA will make you a thug or murderer - There is so much tech that is so often attached to us that when you are looking at recreational activities that take place entirely on the platform of 'technology' there's a reasonable concern for going too-far, like you're sh#tposting. Did you impress your in-game retainer? Did it level you up on 4ch##? - Anyway, when a concept is used at an extreme it can be fun, worthy, capable, enhancing, etc. Like the whole 'dynamic NPC' or interaction idea. When an extreme concept goes too far it becomes extremism and the ism entails that it becomes an absolution wherein soon every single game ever has the exact same faces, animations, dialogue, concepts, ideas.

It's a tech that exists but requires use in moderation which is a finnicky thing to understand. There has to be some form of balance for it to be enjoyable thereafter and it's a discussion that will eventually need to take place and does take place in all things including technology.

When you figure in where extremes end up ism-ified you're hard-pressed to not feel most emotion to the most extreme - Like synthetics. The one chemical that does it all doesn't end up being that wonderful even though it ticks all of the boxes of a reaction at the lightest applicable dose - When is FFXIV getting the 'auto play' button? Similar idea.

If what I'm explaining is a bit convoluted think of what being unique is as a concept - Everyone is different and we all deserve equal opportunity where it's most appropriate (even when mishandled by modern standards, to this very moment) and what makes us ourselves is what we are: ourselves. This circulation is why our DNA strands look and are identified as the noted spiral-waved complexities that make us all our own unique person and the extension of whom made us. It's the root of why getting that signature of your favorite artists on your favorite art could be of value to someone and more valued than the watermark of SquareEnix or a possible AI-augmented copyright slogan.

I hate to be so introspective when approaching topics like this as bringing up outside understandings into the realm of a given topic and shudder some and lead to them mis-catastrophizing what's said or my own approach, henceforth, but it works conjunctively as it's what the basis of relativity and the circulation of what resides within our boundaries of life. When the time-to-ship and the money gained are over-cared for you get things like: Exploding cellphones, unraveled clothing, burnt food. The effects resonate similar when over-using automation just not nearly as obvious as a bad bun on your burger and it's why I've been so detailed in my thread.

I also want to note I am not omitting problem-solving here, it's just why over-charge your development cycle just to need to go back and amend? Discussion like this can attempt to future-proof a, albeit rare in potential, disaster. If they figure that before they venture too far into development, they won't bust up what allows us to sit for hours in Limsa Lominsa and ogle over our characters poses. I chose FFXIV as the place to place this as it's, like I've mentioned, so very important to the concept of the game - It's those important things that make it a great life sim alternative, as well!!

[DiaDeem]

Also, if you've ever used DLSS, you've already used AI