What are your unrealistic expectations for the upcoming Combat Live Letter?

[Lyth]

??

I think that it's a serious mistake to cater job design to people who are currently ambivalent to it. You drive away the core audience, and everyone else remains ambivalent. That's a contributing factor to a lot of the progressive simplifications that we're seeing across roles.

Contributing to this are bad actors who have no interest in the role but are out looking for personal gain. When Abyssos was released, all we heard from that tier about was how Casters 'should do more dps' because of the hitbox sizes and wall fights without positionals. This is where most of the push to remove postionals comes from. It's pretty obvious what their follow-up to this will be.

Likewise, a tiered system of 'sub-subroles' into BLM and non-BLM was probably the worst design decision to hit Caster DPS. Jobs in a subrole should have parity with each other at minimum, which in turn places some constraints in the design and types of gameplay challenges. If you remove those challenges, then that balance gets called into question. So if DRG post-rework is suddenly without positionals and comes with widespread simplifications and button loss as 'Dawntrail's SMN', does that mean that we suddenly create an 'unwanted tier' of melee DPS? At least SMN had Raise.

Unless players step in to defend their role and vocalize that these ideas are unwanted and unwelcome, the devs assume that players in the role want these simplifications and we end up with the likes of auto-healing tanks that don't manage positioning, casters that don't cast, and healers that aren't needed to heal while being restricted to one-button Broil rotations. A 'platformer without pitfalls'.

If you want people to be sympathetic to healer issues, then you have to offer a degree of mutual consideration to preserving roles that others care about in return. This is just the tip of the iceburg. Removing positionals will definitely come with significant backlash, at least after the fact.

[Supersnow845]

putting my quote as question marks changes nothing when you know what I’m saying and just ends up looking like a rude way to imply that what I’m saying is meaningless or confusing when it’s not

You seem to have this overwhelming assumption that what you want is what every player wants when it concerns classes you play but when it comes to other classes they are free game.

Me having a problem with healer issues has nothing to do with me looking for changes in the other roles. I have said dozens of times if square came out and showed empirically that healer population preferred the current design I would relent and agree with the majority. That’s why I don’t shout down people who come in offering suggestions for healers (as do most others), we point out flaws if there is one but we don’t work off the assumption that any one design is an unassailable truth as you seem to do with the melees. Anyone is free to offer any suggestions about any class. Sure more weight should be given to the mains but that doesn’t mean others should be discouraged from offering what they want out of a class, it’s why I prefer to offer suggestions expanding classes I find flawed like SMN, not reverting them

I’m a healer main but that doesn’t mean I have opinions about the other classes, if you truly don’t think others should be able to have opinions about the other classes why are you always on the healer forums or the tank forums

I’m not even going to mention I don’t want them removed for all melee, just an option like SMN for non casters and MCH for non proc phys ranged or PLD for low APM tanks or AST for high APM healers

[Lyth]

...

This recommendation has actually been rejected several times before (in this expansion alone) on the DPS subforum, where melee players who are directly engaged with the topic provide feedback. Just because you've tried to slide in the idea here doesn't mean that melee players are silently on board with removing positionals.

I think if you go out of your way to suggest detrimental changes to role that you don't play, then people in turn will be less sympathetic when it comes to your own concerns about healer gameplay. This is a basic courtesy.

It's already been explained to you why splitting melee dps into a two tier system of 'positional' and 'non-positional' jobs is a bad idea. Saying that you will find 'an alternative mechanic' to replace it without it having proof of concept is meaningless. All this does is recreate the Caster situation, where you have a split between 'low-effort' jobs that do less damage and 'high-effort' jobs that do more damage. You are removing gameplay mechanics without having something tangible to offer in return. This is what leads to the progressive simplification of jobs that we've been seeing.

I get that you've exhausted any and all interest in the healer topic, and unfortunately have to look elsewhere to engagement farm. That's fine, but please do it for roles that are looking for fixes, not ones that are happy with the current design (or at least have expressed that they want to see more positionals brought back rather than less). I'm sure that you have wonderful ideas to offer Physical Ranged and Casters instead.

[Supersnow845]

This recommendation has been rejected several times before on the DPS subforum, where melee players who are directly engaged with the topic provide feedback. Just because you've tried to slide in the idea here doesn't mean that melee players are silently on board with removing positionals.

I think if you go out of your way to suggest detrimental changes to role that you don't play, then people in turn will be less sympathetic when it comes to your own concerns about healer gameplay. This is a basic courtesy.

It's already been explained to you why splitting melee dps into a two tier system of 'positional' and 'non-positional' jobs is a bad idea. Saying that you will find 'an alternative mechanic' to replace it without it having proof of concept is meaningless. All this does is recreate the Caster situation, where you have a split between 'low-effort' jobs that do less damage and 'high-effort' jobs that do more damage.

I get that you've exhausted any and all interest in the healer topic, and now have to look elsewhere to engagement farm. That's fine, but go do it for roles that are looking for fixes, not ones that are happy with the current design. I'm sure that you have wonderful ideas to offer Physical Ranged and Casters as well.

Once again you have this weird absolutely unassailable belief that your word is law when it comes to melee. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t just so…………..dismissive for literally zero reason. Do you see me going on to any comment you make in the other forums going “acshooly sweaty nobody wants to hear your opinion karma farm on a different forum”. I would say this weird “courtesy trade” you are hammering on about would be valid if you didn’t freely espouse your opinions on the other roles without caring what their mains say, how many times have you argued with me about healers or goatofwar about tanks, aren’t you not providing us with this weird courtesy trade by your own definition

Because as you’ve seen from this forum alone your idea of detrimental changes other poepe like and it’s not just me, you can “if you don’t like positionals you aren’t a real melee main” all you like but there are melee mains who don’t like them and other people who don’t main melee who don’t like them (just as there are mains and non mains who do like them) you’ve got to let go of this “only my opinion on the subject matters”

You have provided exactly zero evidence that a sub role system wouldn’t work (which let me remind you I didn’t even suggest), all I’m saying is if you have a quarter of the games total jobs you dint need them to have all the same feature just because they are melee and because you happen to like positionals

[Reinha]

This recommendation has actually been rejected several times before (in this expansion alone) on the DPS subforum, where melee players who are directly engaged with the topic provide feedback. Just because you've tried to slide in the idea here doesn't mean that melee players are silently on board with removing positionals.

The dps subforum is a dead forum that represents a minority among the official forum users, which in itself is a minority of the player base. Not to mention that many long time players have been banned from posting in here because of some completely irrelevant topics they dared to participate in. I'm a melee main who did savage this expansion and just like Supersnow I would like to have one (1) melee job without positionals.