Astrologian: what is your understanding about it?

[Local_Custard]

hewwo!
I'm popping in to ask a few questions about ast:
1. when should I use helios over asp helios? I have been trying to work away from overusing asp helios since it meant I would neglect to use much of my kit and worsen my performance overall (with lots of free heals, I should use them-). I almost never touch helios.
2. a. can you link me to multiple ast suggest posts? Especially your favorite ones.
b. can you link me to any posts that go into depth on ast's current problems?
3. I am still trying to cook this hypothetical ast rework and could use some eyes on it before I post it. There are some things I do not fully understand and trying to learn more about (of course, experience is the best medicine for this but I couldn't hop onto the game today). Is anyone willing to speak with me in game or over discord?

[Supersnow845]

1) Helios is near redundant these days. Its purpose used to be in high damage situations you’d press aspected Helios once then spam Helios while the regen ticked however they doubled the regen potency and halved the duration so this niche barely applies anymore. Regardless both are rarely used anyway
2b) AST has a lot of problems right now but people debate on what constitutes being a problem. Basically let’s split AST into two halves, the burst window and outside the burst window. Outside the burst window is pretty self explanatory. You spam malefic and barely do anything else. Even healers collectively suffer from the problem of being cucked by the superior shield healers so this makes this even worse. Now inside the burst window, in EW they made the change to give draw charges and added astroydyne. This has massively inflated AST’s burst window as they now have to juggle 2 minor arcana (which has its own problems of being a pointless RNG button) earthly star, divination, 3 cards and potentially 2 astrodynes. This requires the use of AST’s only movement tool lightspeed to facilitate the needed number of weave slots. People complain this burst window is clunky, overfull and barely worth the effort as in most content except at the top end WHM out damages it anyway. This has led AST to being the most unpopular class in the game right now

[Local_Custard]

1) Helios is near redundant these days. Its purpose used to be in high damage situations you’d press aspected Helios once then spam Helios while the regen ticked however they doubled the regen potency and halved the duration so this niche barely applies anymore. Regardless both are rarely used anyway
2b) AST has a lot of problems right now but people debate on what constitutes being a problem. Basically let’s split AST into two halves, the burst window and outside the burst window. Outside the burst window is pretty self explanatory. You spam malefic and barely do anything else. Even healers collectively suffer from the problem of being cucked by the superior shield healers so this makes this even worse. Now inside the burst window, in EW they made the change to give draw charges and added astroydyne. This has massively inflated AST’s burst window as they now have to juggle 2 minor arcana (which has its own problems of being a pointless RNG button) earthly star, divination, 3 cards and potentially 2 astrodynes. This requires the use of AST’s only movement tool lightspeed to facilitate the needed number of weave slots. People complain this burst window is clunky, overfull and barely worth the effort as in most content except at the top end WHM out damages it anyway. This has led AST to being the most unpopular class in the game right now

I'm surprised. I thought sch was the most unpopular class?
I was considering combining both helios for the redesign I'm cooking. What are the repercussions of this?

[Supersnow845]

I'm surprised. I thought sch was the most unpopular class?
I was considering combining both helios for the redesign. What are the repercussions of this?

SCH is third in EU and NA and second in JP. Some people don’t like it’s “clunky” design but it’s widely agreed as the strongest healer in EW do that may contribute. JP also seemed to have not liked how copy pasted SGE was so sorta played SCH as a protest if my google translate of the JP forums is accurate

Convincing Helios and aspected Helios is near pointless as you would still just press it exactly when you current press aspected Helios, it won’t ruin anything but it won’t change anything either

[Local_Custard]

SCH is third in EU and NA and second in JP. Some people don’t like it’s “clunky” design but it’s widely agreed as the strongest healer in EW do that may contribute. JP also seemed to have not liked how copy pasted SGE was so sorta played SCH as a protest if my google translate of the JP forums is accurate

Convincing Helios and aspected Helios is near pointless as you would still just press it exactly when you current press aspected Helios, it won’t ruin anything but it won’t change anything either

hm okay, will be noted. If I am to do anything with them, I'll need to put a lot of thought into it in relation to the entire kit.

[ASkellington]

SCH is third in EU and NA and second in JP. Some people don’t like it’s “clunky” design but it’s widely agreed as the strongest healer in EW do that may contribute. JP also seemed to have not liked how copy pasted SGE was so sorta played SCH as a protest if my google translate of the JP forums is accurate

Convincing Helios and aspected Helios is near pointless as you would still just press it exactly when you current press aspected Helios, it won’t ruin anything but it won’t change anything either

The only way I'd see it being interesting would be for a rework of AST from WHM's buffier clone to a Regen/Delayed healer based model.

Benefic, Helios, Neutral Sect and Celestial Intersection go out the window, Essential Dignity remains your one burst heal and most of your healing comes from Regens (A. Benefic/Helios, Celestial Opposition) and delays (Earthly Star, Macrocosmos, Exaltation). Collective Unconciousness I'd rather change to where the regen is removed (and the mitigation bubble can stay because I do like you can pop it, mit, and then drop it).

As far as AST problems go:

• Cards are boring. There's six of them, but two effects and people want to go back to the older model where they all do different things.
• APM. This is an easy fix by 1. removing or reworking Trashtrodyne/Seals System, 2. removing the extra charge of draw

To go further in the above, with 2 charges of Draw you're trying to play them both ASAP in the Divination window while also getting the 3 different seals to boost your own DPS. If however, the seals system is removed and a charge of Draw is dropped, you now have 1 card you need to play upon a dps, even if we don't change the current cards' effects.

Aside from that AST shares the other problems healers have: boring 2 dps rotation, too similar to other healers in play style (even from just a healing kit perspective) etc.

[Sylvain]

The only way I'd see it being interesting would be for a rework of AST from WHM's buffier clone to a Regen/Delayed healer based model.

It already is this way (wouldn't mind an extra delayed skill though at 100).
In practice, the feeling of WHM and AST (cards aside) are quite different.

Aspected Helios / MedicaII have very little to do as we rarely use those. The only time I ever use aspected helios (beside downtime when boss isn't here) is for a neutral sect.
Same for Regen/Asp.Benefic, like I throw one during a transition on the tank (because why not), or if ever that's really neeeded in early stage of savage prog but that's really really rare.

The rest is 100% ogcd healing (and macro). That's definitely not how WHM operates and to me at least the feeling is very different.
When I play AST, I deal with many 1min ogcd (and 1 big 3min), when I play with WHM it's more of a many charges of a single button that I can put on steroid once a minute. Asylum and Lilibell being the joker "needs a bit more oomph here".

The card system is, to me at least, a totally different problem that can and needs to be addressed separatly.
Dunno what they'll do... I'm really not expecting much.
I'm not expecting any special card effect, pretty sure we'll be stuck with x% dps on everyone.
I'm expecting some form of APM reduction, wether it is as you suggested by removing 1 seal/card or perhaps making it a gcd like a mudra.
TBH, if cards duration were much longer, like 30s, we wouldn't need to throw them ASAP beside during the opener. Most opener don't last 30s (or at least, most of the potency has already been dumped within 10-15s). With 30s cards you could preshot a little more and it'd be less hectic.
Another solution (to hectic APM every 2min) could be to make cards a buff that triggers upon using Divination. This way you could throw cards throughout the 2 mins and then, when divination is up, trigger everything.

[Supersnow845]

They simply need to revert the charge on draw, that’s where 99% of AST’s EW problems come from

WHM and AST as Sylvain said heal about as differently as possible while still both being regen healers. Divination is fine, clarifying redraw being a proxy sleeve draw is fine and the rest of the card system while boring is at least functional.

The second charge of draw completely clogging up the burst window (minor arcana could also go) is why the class feels so much worse than ShB

[ASkellington]

It already is this way (wouldn't mind an extra delayed skill though at 100).
In practice, the feeling of WHM and AST (cards aside) are quite different.

I disagree sub-50 which is where my changes would impact AST more.

Further, though we heal on the oGCD vs WHM I don't believe GCD vs oGCD healing to be different enough. Especially as dps wise we're pretty much the same with mostly the Blood Lily mechanic (as bad as it is) to separate us.

Were WHM to have longer cast times like BLM even if it was back to the 2.5s I would be more inclined to agree.

Basically I'd like AST to BE the regen healer and WHM to just be burst with little to none.

[Local_Custard]

More astrologian questions:

1. what spell/abilities would you be fine disappearing tomorrow? Why did you choose those spells/abilities?
To make it easy I know that undraw going away tomorrow wouldn't impact the job at all.

For this kit design I'm making, I am looking at what spells/abilities I can consolidate or get rid of but drawing some blanks.

2. When do you use exaltation? I have a feeling I am not using it properly. I tend to place it on the tank during trash pulls.
3. Celestial intersection? I use that on the tank during trash pulls, on a dps in niche scenarios (such as if they have vuln stacks but otherwise preform well), or to make tank busters hit like wet noodles. Is there another use that I may not have considered?