Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[currentlemon]

Pretty much every expansion’s equivalent expert dungeons always had at least one standout either from a storytelling or an actual fun perspective but EW had nothing

ShB- hero’s gauntlet is arguably the best dungeon in the game from a storytelling perspective and its bosses are relatively interesting, both the anyder’s had interesting bosses and akademia is the most recent example of allowing us a triple pull, amurot also had a great visual storytelling and its bosses were dangerous

SB- the burn speaks for itself, the burn and holminster are the peak of dungeon design from a “fun perspective”, the ghimlyt dark was also a standout for its use of NPC’s without being intrusive

HW- we meme it for anima poetic hell but ARF is a genuinely well paced and interesting dungeon with a variety of pulls and mob design, sor khai also had strong boss design and the fracctal continuum was one of the few dungeons that let you freely pick pull size

ARR- Pharos Sirius is arguably the hardest dungeon ever on launch. Lost city and amdapor hard also had some great storytelling and mechanic interplay with their final bosses and the final trash stretch


EW has what………I mean dead ends isn’t terrible but dead ends is by far the best of the EW expert dungeons and it isn’t even good. Would we even agree on the second, they are all incredibly beige from a storytelling, mob and boss design. They are all just so thoroughly…..unmemorable

The leveling dungeons were a lot more memorable than the max level dungeons I have played (I quit playing at 6.2, so I haven’t played all of EW’s dungeons yet).

[SeverianLyonesse]

The leveling dungeons were a lot more memorable than the max level dungeons I have played (I quit playing at 6.2, so I haven’t played all of EW’s dungeons yet).

I do think the comparisons are a tad unfair given that HW and SB also had a bunch "hard" dungeon variants that were quite underwhelming.

I don't think EW is *that* bad. I do agree that the wrap-up dungeons were pretty weak, but that is largely due to the second half of the story existing in these vague spaaaaaaace areas with very little to ground their story: Aitiascope, Dead Ends, Smileton, Stigma Dreamscape. They all had a conceptual setting, but that mostly felt like window-dressing and didn't feel as well-connected to the world the story is taking place in. However, I do think that both the leveling dungeons and patch dungeons are much stronger for being more grounded in more finite worldbuilding. Tower of Zot, Tower of Babil, and Vanaspati all logically relate back to and expand on Thavnair, Garlemald, and the moon towers. Fell Court, Lapis Manalis, and Lunar Subterrane all relate back to the history of the Thirteenth. Those were much better experiences, imo.

In sum, I think Endwalker's weakness was just getting far too abstracted and up its behind about this whole Endsinger/Ultima Thule business for too long. I think the expansion would have fared much better if it had broken down the act structure to spend all but the final act in Elpis/Space, and more time in Ilsabard/Sharlayan. Instead of the 50/50 split we got. Honestly I think Elpis should have just been an instance and not a full map, with the freed up map dedicated to fleshing out Garlemald. Elpis adds so little to the world map and ended up forcing a rush through Garlemald and a bloating of the second half of the story; the dungeon would have faired better as a patch dungeon than this weird time travel sidetracking business.