Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[rawker]

In my opinion, they should cut down on oGCD direct healing. Instead oGCDs should temporarily alter the properties of GCDs, i.e Swiftcast, Surecast, Thin Air, Emergency Tactics, Deployment Tactics, etc.

[A-Omega]

Ummm…you know that happened already right…twice in fact. Maybe you weren’t playing but…we lost almost all of our self sustain in SB and in ShB we literally couldn’t heal ourselves at all unless we targeted someone else.
What exactly does WAR have that no one else has? BW only excels in dungeon settings where there’s multiple enemies to capitalize off of. When it’s a single target, the slow gcd makes the heal per hit equal to or less then every other tanks self sustain. I’d love to understand where this blind WAR hate is coming from when we’re half what every other tank is.

[Zairava]

Ummm…you know that happened already right…twice in fact. Maybe you weren’t playing but…we lost almost all of our self sustain in SB and in ShB we literally couldn’t heal ourselves at all unless we targeted someone else.
What exactly does WAR have that no one else has? BW only excels in dungeon settings where there’s multiple enemies to capitalize off of. When it’s a single target, the slow gcd makes the heal per hit equal to or less then every other tanks self sustain. I’d love to understand where this blind WAR hate is coming from when we’re half what every other tank is.

1) They removed needing to target a party member with Nascent Flash, although I don't remember what specific patch it was

2) Equilibrium exists, so yes you could heal yourself even when it did require a target.

3) the healing on Bloodwhetting alone heals more HP than the amount of eHP TBN grants, you have a shield equal to the same potency per ST GCD heal via BW, so it's more potent than Holy Sheltron.


Warrior is literally the best tank in the game right now and it's not even a contest.

[aiqa]

Ummm…you know that happened already right…twice in fact. Maybe you weren’t playing but…we lost almost all of our self sustain in SB and in ShB we literally couldn’t heal ourselves at all unless we targeted someone else.
What exactly does WAR have that no one else has? BW only excels in dungeon settings where there’s multiple enemies to capitalize off of. When it’s a single target, the slow gcd makes the heal per hit equal to or less then every other tanks self sustain. I’d love to understand where this blind WAR hate is coming from when we’re half what every other tank is.

That was explained quite a few times. So if you were really wanted to understand you could have just read those in this thread. But again: at the very least WAR has far to much self healing against groups of enemies. A good WAR will often do higher HPS than a healer in dungeons. And there a few other issues, like my own pet peeve that PLD and WAR eat further into the healer role with a strong ogcd AoE shield+heal.

[Nero-Voidstails]

just remove all healing from all tank because if they only focus all job for extreme savage and ultimate then they are not listening to the casual midcore player that doesn't like playing healer to only simply use two buttons

[Supersnow845]

Ummm…you know that happened already right…twice in fact. Maybe you weren’t playing but…we lost almost all of our self sustain in SB and in ShB we literally couldn’t heal ourselves at all unless we targeted someone else.
What exactly does WAR have that no one else has? BW only excels in dungeon settings where there’s multiple enemies to capitalize off of. When it’s a single target, the slow gcd makes the heal per hit equal to or less then every other tanks self sustain. I’d love to understand where this blind WAR hate is coming from when we’re half what every other tank is.

Now as a start due to healers maim and mend traits and tanks tank mastery traits in general a tank’s healing potency is half a healers healing potency (so if a tank says 1000 it would be 500 on a healer) for the purpose of this I’m going to put all of the healing in healer potency not tank potency as it’s the more relevant potency indicator

Now with that out of the way. In a single minute WAR gets access to 2.4 casts of bloodwhetting, 1 cast of equilibrium and 0.667 casts of thrill of battle (I’m going to ignore shake it off here because shake it off is AOE)

One use of bloodwhetting in single target equals 1 200 potency shield and 4 200 potency heals. So 1000 healer potency per cast of bloodwhetting, you get 2.4 casts per minute which equals 2400 potency of healing per minute (for reference here TBN is a 25% shield of the tanks HP, a tank HP bar is about 2500 potency so since you can use TBN every 15 seconds or 4 casts you have an effective healing of 2500. So bloodwhetting functionally equals TBN alone. Now holy Shelton also has a CD of about 25 seconds given how quickly the oath gauge fills and it has a healing potency of 4 * 125 which is 500 potency per cast or 1200 potency per minute. Now heart of corrundum has a heal of 450 potency and can be used every 25 seconds or 2.4 casts so that’s 1080 potency of healing per minute.)

So currently we are at
WAR- 2400 potency
DRK- 2500 potency
PLD- 1500 potency
GNB- 1080 potency

However all but DRK also have mitigation built into their healing short CD’s 15+15 for PLD and GNB, 10+10 for WAR. Now let’s say as an easy calculation the boss whacks you twice; once during the high mitigation and once during the low mitigation. An average boss auto is about 1000 potency of damage. So PLD and GNB gain 1080 effective HP (30% mitigation on 1000= 300 potency, 15% mitigation on 1000= 150, 450 * 2.4 = 1080), WAR gets 720 (20% of 1000 = 200 10% of 1000 = 100 300 * 2.4= 720)

So now we are at a cumulative
DRK= 2500 potency
WAR= 3120 potency
PLD= 2580 potency
GNB= 2160 potency

So DRK is already third just from short mits and it’s the totality of its sustain

Now let’s add in rotational healing

-WAR gets 125 potency of healing every storms path, WAR will use storms path an average of 7 times per minute (for a total of 875)
-PLD gets 200 potency of healing on every magic spell used, it will on average use Holy Spirit 3 times and the blade combo once (for a total of 1400)
-GNB gets 200 potency of healing per brutal shell which it will use an average of 7 times (for a total of 1400)
-DRK gets a 150 potency of healing per souleater which it will use 7 times (for a total of 1050)

So now we are at
-DRK- 3550 potency
-WAR- 3995 potency
-PLD- 3980 potency
-GNB- 3560 potency

So DRK is now last. Now we still have to add in damage neutral heals some tanks have access to. This is really only equilibrium, thrill and aurora

Let’s start with equilibrium. Equilibrium is an 1100 potency heal let’s buff it and a single bloodwhetting with shake and assume the extra HP got consumed. So 1100 * 1.2= 1320, 1000 * 1.2= 1200, 2500 * 1.2= 3000. So thrill has provided an extra 920 potency but it’s a 90 second CD so 920 * 2/3 = 613. So WAR’s extra CD’s provide it another 1713 potency

Aurora is a flat 600 potency per minute so that’s easy

So our final tallies are
DRK- 3550 potency
WAR- 5708 potency
PLD- 3980 potency
GNB- 4160 potency

So we can already see the WAR is uniquely cracked but there is one thing I still haven’t mentioned. Every heal on bloodwhetting, equilibrium, heart of corrundum, the heals on the magic combo, and the rotational heals can all crit. Now let’s assume a 20% crit chance and a 1.6* crit multiplier

This adds 768 potency to WAR for bloodwhetting, 422 for equilibrium and 280 for its rotational heals for a total of 1470
This adds 332 potency to DRK for rotational heals
This adds 448 potency to PLD for the rotational heals and 480 for holy Shelton for a total of 928
This adds 448 potency to GNB for the rotational heals, 192 for aurora and 345 for HOC for a total of 985

So our grand total self healing capacity
DRK- 3682 potency
WAR- 7178 potency
PLD- 4908 potency
GNB- 4800 potency

Can we see the problem child emerging now. This is entirely single target healing and WAR is literally beyond broken even in single target and I’m being favourable to DRK here as it’s very unlikely you’ll press TBN every 15 seconds but pressing the other 4 every 25 seconds is relatively reasonable as they don’t have a potential loss attached

Edit 2; so I did some extra calculations and found that a 50% nerf might be a bit extreme (I always thought M&M was 30% up and tank mastery was 20% down but it looks like tank mastery no longer gives 20% down) so I’ll provide one extra set of calculations assuming tank healing is only 30% weaker. This would apply to everything besides TBN)

Under this system
-DRK- 3918
-WAR- 8613
-PLD- 5889
-GNB- 5760

Which paints DRK in an even worse light

[GoatOfWar]

I’d love to understand where this blind WAR hate is coming from when we’re half what every other tank is.

I can't, i actually can't.
Good lord, people STILL think Warrior does anything remotely worse than other tanks? ''Half of every other tank''
This is exactly why people hate War. It's players think it's weak when it's literally choked out every niche in it's role.
Undeserved buff after buff after buff after buff, and War players still aren't happy when you have the best version of every tank cooldown?

You have the best utility in every category.
The best invuln, the best party mit, the best party healing, the best sustain, the easiest rotation, and you didn't want to be taxed on dps so that's no longer a factor either.
Why does Warrior need better healing and shielding than a paladin?
Why does Warrior need higher damage than the squishiest tank? It's a better main tank than the guy with a shield.
Why did Warrior need the same duration as other invulns without the longer cooldowns?
Why did Warrior need to get another tank's cooldown as a ''buff'' to it's own? (Aurora casually being slapped on to Equilibrium when your healing was already stupidly high)
It's the only tank that got fat buffs during the paladin rework just to make sure Shake it off arbitrarily remained a better cooldown than Veil. When DM and HoL were balanced to be the same.
Why did it need it's dps buffed when it was already clearing the hardest content in the game without healers?

GEEEEEE i WONDER why people hate your job?
Maybe it's the loud presence of angry Warrior mains online any time a tier comes out and Warrior isn't the best at absolutely everything and getting your way every single time.
Perhaps, it's this exact same mindset that got various tank abilities cannibalised and streamlined in previous expansions too.
Maybe it's the degradation of all the content Warrior is shitting harder and harder on because of the streamer endorsed powercreep it's introducing to the game?
What if it's the dissolvement of the holy trinity because it's *literally* replacing healers in some of the hardest content in the game?
It's the preferential treatment that has led us here. And no, i don't want Drk buffs. Tank sustain needs to come down.

[rawker]

1) They removed needing to target a party member with Nascent Flash, although I don't remember what specific patch it was

2) Equilibrium exists, so yes you could heal yourself even when it did require a target.

3) the healing on Bloodwhetting alone heals more HP than the amount of eHP TBN grants, you have a shield equal to the same potency per ST GCD heal via BW, so it's more potent than Holy Sheltron.


Warrior is literally the best tank in the game right now and it's not even a contest.

Don't leave out the invuln

[Valence]

My problem isn't that WAR does more self healing than other tank. If anything, it could just be part of its identity while other tanks are stronger on other things. My problem is that there is nothing else for other tanks and WAR does everything they do but better.

[GoatOfWar]

My problem isn't that WAR does more self healing than other tank. If anything, it could just be part of its identity while other tanks are stronger on other things. My problem is that there is nothing else for other tanks and WAR does everything they do but better.

I've been saying this the day the 6.4 patch went live.
But i got told to shut up and that Drk would be fine, and how unfair it was for Drk to do 2% more dps than War.
It's nice to see everyone else catch on a year later though - Warrior has simply choked out every niche in the tank role.
As it stands now, there isn't really any reason for any of the other tanks to exist. War is just better at everything. The others are glorified animation packs that perform worse at everything in their role.
If things don't change in DT, War will effectively have killed the role for me.