Red Mage: I am not a Back line class

[Elgeron]

What if we give the red mage... red magic?

Why don´t we break the classic old concept of Red Mage third part WHM, third part BLM , another third part WAR and full part inefficent and unoriginal ?

Let the red mage focus in something different, something new never made in a MMORPG before, a class with an unique function no other class or job can imitate. Let it be something that isn´t in the old categories of "Nuker", "Damage dealer", "Healer" ect, lets make a really unique job with a real function.

FFXIV is supposed to be a new generation MMORPG, but I´m tired of this concept of new generation, impresive graphics and animations are great and I loved them, it´s true, but if SE only focus in reusing and improving what is already done, what sense it makes to call it "new" ?. They should create new things, never seen in other MMORPG, new jobs with unique function, new battle mechanics never seen before, let the red mage be something new and groundbreaking, make new and interesting jobs, not just reuse them and change two or three thinks. A Jack of all trade is an horrible and unoriginal idea, lets take 3 classes and mix them, yeah, that looks like something original isn´t it ?. It was good back in 1987 maybe, but now we have to make something new.


CONCLUSION (OR SHORT VERSION IF YOU DON´T WANT TO READ ALL THAT STUFF UP THERE)

...Sorry for the rant U.U
Anyway, what I said is, we have classes which can be used as Jack of All trades, why make a job about that ?, and what is worse, why create an unoriginal, overused and really just a mix of other classes ?. I vote to create something original. Right now I haven´t any idea but I´m on it. ^^U

Just think about that, red magic, a third type of magic never seen in other MMORPG whit original gameplay and a real function (no other class would be able to imitate that function).

Thanks for reading.

[Jinko]

I'm all for Red magic.. but what would that be.

Absorption magic, enfeebling, Dot's, transformation magic ?

You make a good suggestion but don't follow up with an actual idea, at this point in gaming its almost impossible to come up with something that hasn't been done before.

[Elgeron]

Ummh, I´m thinking on it. Magic with a very strategic porpuse, it should be able to alter the reality. Teleportation, changing the position of partners, alteration of the enmity, being able to alter the strength and weakness of himself his party and even his enemies. A class which don´t need to fight or heal to be usefull, a class suit for strategy fighting. Red mage will watch every aspect of the battle and use a great variety of spells to change the odds. Making cure regen MP but consume HP when used, use some old spells like relfect and debuffs, changing magical damage for physical. It should have weaks stats and some limitations of course, and most of his spells have a good and bad effect.

A full strategy job, the kind of person who can overcome imposible situations using his mind and his sodiers, partenes and friends.

Red Magic should have a lot of diverse spells with different uses and a bad red mage would kill his party, while a good one will make a 8 men unstoppable army.

This just one idea, I´m still thinking.

[Jinko]

Kind of like calculator/mathematician from FFT then ?

[Elgeron]

I haven´t played FFT (in fact I just started a few days ago so I haven´t the calculator job yet lol) but maybe why not?

[Elgeron]

Other thing red magic could have is what I liked to call "battlefield alteration spells".

For example, gravity wouldn´t be an attacl, but rather it will create a zone where projectiles are usseles and movement is slow down or right awy imposibble. An anti magic zone spell too will be nice or a "berserker" zone, where player characters lose HP but gain an stat improvement, or a zone wich make all kind of attacks usseless but drain totally the MP and TP of the user, and there are even a lot more posibilities for spells.

The only problem is, that enemies should be remade to give them more skills and differents attacks, so new and different strategy are needed. One hit kill skill wich need the use of Red Magic special uses, long ranged and magical enemies, and even enemies which act like red mages, altering the battle in deifferents ways, being the red mages the only ones who can reverse its effects.

[Delila]

I think the fencer class could work similar to the way DNC did in XI. So fun to play.. just got tired of the animations. glowing enspells, haste move, MP moves, HP moves. really cool combo status effects. RDM spells paralyze, dia, bio, blind, Second job could be DNC or even BLU. I would like to see slow,stop,rewind etc go to time mage/green mage.

[ThePatriarch]

Quit meleein' and refresh the mages.

I got a good chuckle out of this lol

[Wycor]

First of all people should need to know what role the Red mage would use: DD, Enhaing, Enfeebling, DD-Enhan, DD-Enfee...

I like the idea of Firon and Elgeron where Red mage should use tp for spells and some unique spells. Putting this together is hard if we consider what everyone wants, a close combat mage, because animation log, role, tp generation... etz.


Red Mage Spells:

- If Enhancing spells: "Berserk" (enhances attack), "YY" (enhances Magic potency), "Fortify" (enhances defense), "Haste" , "En-Fire,Blizzard,Aero,Thunder,Water" (adds elemental dmg to auto-atacks).

- If Enfeebling spells: "Bio", "Dia", "Gravity", "Burn", "Choke", "Shock", "Drown" (No paralyze, poison, silence)...

Usage of TP on Weapon skills:

- Weapons skills that lower elemental resistence.

- Normal Weapons Skills

~ "AAA" (Multi hit low acc.)
~ "Retribution" (deals magic dmg and return MP based on the dmg. Combo AAA: more mp drained)
~ "Soul break" 3000tp (one hit magic dmg that ignores magic defense based on on tp. Combo Retribution: DMG increased based on mp


Etz...


Usage of TP on Red Mage for spells:

-We can use the TP as a way of be able to perfom AoE on spells (Enfeebling, enhancing..).

Let's say we use "XX" ability (I'm bad for names) which have a low countdown (15sec-30sec?) and grants the red mage the effect of AoE to the next spell it uses. However apart of the mp cost the spell would have, the ability would add a TP cost (depends on which spell is used) for the spell to be AoE.

-We can use the TP as a way of be able to enhance the enfeeblings and enhancing magic adding effects.

Something in the lines we have 2 ablities: one for enhancing magic and one for enfeebling (1min recast) that adds additional effect (not much tho).

Berserk: attack + acc
Haste: speed att + store tp
"YY": m.potency + m.acc
"Fortify": defense + hp
Bio: tick dmg + lower attack
Dia: tick dmg + lower defense
Bleed: tick dmg + lower magic defense
Etz..

---------------


With this we would have a Red mage close comba like everyone wants but still been a buffer or debuffer that you would want always in the party. If i had to choose i would give it for weapon a "Rappier".

Edit: Thinking about it and so far you can't have a proper and decent Close combat mage (or hybrid) due one main issue that most people cry as soon as they see those words... "Gear swap". If you don't allow gear swap you will have: a simple DD that cast spells that never lands on target/doens't buff at all or a DD which does a s**ty dmg but cast "strong" enfeebling/enhancing spells .

Note that nowadays you can't change equip while engaged as DD which would make you chose over enfeebling/enhancing or keep disengaging -> change ekip -> cast -> change ekip -> engage (like bards do now). Which would mean that you would almost never being meleeing at all and makes the "close combat mage" meanless.



My two cents. Thanks for your time.

[Ramsey]

What if we give the red mage... red magic?

Why don´t we break the classic old concept of Red Mage third part WHM, third part BLM , another third part WAR and full part inefficent and unoriginal ?

RDM was anything but inefficient in FFXI. But furthermore, RDM is a third part these things, because that's what Red Mage is. Final Fantasy has an established job system, Red Mage has never varied wildly from its roots in this regard. FFXI was perhaps the biggest departure for the job.

Not to say that innovation is bad, but people expect something specific from a Red Mage, their love and attachment to the job is based around these expectations. Hence this thread, and half the people posting in it.

But last time SE tried to wildly depart from the expected job system... well look what happened.

And if you think that making it so they can do everyone else's job just as well by rotating a stance, perhaps you want OP rdm. lol

Do you not understand the concept of diminishing returns? There are other limitations that could be implemented to ensure balance. It's really not OP at all, in fact, unless they can actually replace a key role permanently, which they wouldn't be able to.

They'd essentially be able to replace a healer with a group that only needs that extra healer slot for a certain part of a fight, or almost doesn't need a second healer, giving them an edge on DPS during the rest of the fight. And they'd be able to replace a DPS in a group that's having trouble with heals, but no trouble with dps, etc.

In an "ideal" raid setup, for players who have already mastered content and are just trying to go faster, RDM would if anything, be underpowered, with the possible exception of raid content where 2 WHM is absolutely necessary for part of the raid, but not the rest. In which case, bringing a RDM instead of 1 of the WHM would allow them to DPS the rest of the instance.

This is especially true with a party size of 8, the bigger the party the more roles you can fill so the less need for a hybrid class.

To the person who suggest stances, I kind of like that idea but you shouldn't be able to change stance during combat this will solve some of the issue with players filling all rolls at a switch of a button.

I see no harm in a class that can play all roles, as long as you can't play all roles at once, this is also taking into account gear, materia and stat choices of course.

Right, because forcing an entire job to drag around 4 sets of unique gear sounds smart. Let's not even discuss itemization of RDM specific gear, or point allotment.

RDM would be more than pointless given this setup. What you're talking about isn't a true hybrid anymore, but a hybrid in the way that Blizzard likes to define the term. A class that can respec to any role.

Why else would RDM be pointless if it could simply respec to fit a role before a fight? We can already do this, we can already change jobs and gear between fights. Why would I bring a RDM if I can just bring someone who has BLM, WAR and DRG leveled?

Unless RDM is better than one of those, in which case, why not just bring 8 RDM?

Having the ability to switch roles in combat, if limited properly, would essentially allow a RDM to smooth over content, by turning one of the party slots into whatever is needed most at the moment. It would never be able to outright replace the main tank, main healer, or primary DPS, but it would be able to replace an off tank or off healer in a group transitioning from clearing to farming, or replace a DPS in a group just learning an instance.

Not that it would be entirely useless for other situations, it would just be outclassed by other jobs that can permanently inhabit a single role. But I'd be willing to pay that price for the versatility expected of RDM.